I just thought I’d start this for all of those who are sub fans, and all those interested in building subs. Togeter if we swap plans ideas and ways to do things, so eventualy there will be a simplified/better way to build and use submarines, along with them being able to pack enough of a punch to be useful and feared. To start out with, one of the main problems with subs in RC naval combat, is their relative inability to fight, which is caused by limited space in the workings of the sub. So, lets first try and determine what different ways people make subs suface and submerge, so that possibly we can determine the smallest and most efficent way to do it.
is it a rule that submarines are not allowed to fight or carry cannons.... in real life some submarines like the USS Bowfin carried deck guns. i plan on making a model ship or sub, and i tihnk that having a submarine with a deck gun would be a very effective weapon.
The problem is size. Most of us battle in 1/144 scale, and most subs are too small to fit everything in AND fit in a gun and CO2 system. I'd imagine the 1/72 guys have better luck with them (if they are legal) and the 1/96 guys would do better with them if they ever really get off the ground.
well..i dont have much experience with naval models, but how large exactyl are the subs in 1/144 scale?
You'd think the 1/72 guys would have more submarines, but they don't seem very interested in them. They had some at one point, but not any more. Since we usually stick with whatever scale our local group uses, I think we should stick with 1/144, the most common scale. Submarines dive in generally two methods: static and dynamic. My brother wrote up a pretty good description of the two. Static divers usually carry a ballast tank that adjusts the buoyancy to dive or surface. This could involve a CO2 cartridge, regulator, and valves to blow and flood a ballast tank, or it could involve a motorized plunger, or even a pump to suck water in or out of the tank. All of these are commonly seen in the regular model submarine world. I have seen another method of static diving that is worth consideration: a propeller that pulls the submarine down (a "pull-down motor"). The pull-down motor is probably the most compact static diving method, although it will eat battery power to remain underwater. However, I think a static diver is too complex and bulky for our scale. I don't even consider it an option. I think a dynamic diver is much simpler and more compact. It also has a good record: the only successful combat submarines that I know of have been dynamic divers. They required extra-large diving planes (200% surface area) and legally sail 25 knots (45 seconds), although rumor has it they went around 33 knots (34 seconds) to improve diving performance before we got a radar gun and started doing speed checks more often. For myself, there is no question of how to dive: dynamic diving or no diving at all. This leaves me with other questions: what kind of weapons will the sub carry? Are those weapons effective? How will opponents fight against the submarine? How will it be recovered after getting sunk? There are some big gun examples that I have seen in action and which provide answers to many of my questions, but they are not all very good answers. The answer for my last question generally involves scuba gear and many hours of searching, which does not sound like a good answer to me.
I'd think that a static diver would actually be easier to set up then a dynamic diver. We'd have CO2 to drive the guns anyways, an extra poppet to blow ballast wouldn't be much if any heavier then the servos and linkage to drive dive planes. The hard part would be setting up a valve to stop the ballast tanks from flooding when you want to float. Open the valve, boat submerges. I would never, ever consider a dynamic diver (only) if I had an interest in submarines.
it is true that us 1/96 builders have had a slow start but there is progress being made none-the-less. this year has been difficult for some (crap ass economy for starters, less $$ to play with) but boats have been built and are in sailing condition, the area I lived in before moving there were 5 of us with boats but since i was at the center of it when I moved out to the caost this past summer things sort of stalled but I'll be working on it. been in contact with Tug and he's making a mold fore the I-400 from the plug I'd sent him earlier (should be finished now) so to get back on track with this thread I'd have to go with a static diver. I currently have a wood frame being assembled with this system in mind. I'll try to find my camera and post some pics in this thread or in the file manager with some explaination of the workings and planned set up. unfortunately I can't say 100% of the set up will function until the ice melts from my pool (or If I can build a test tank in the basement w/o the wife killing me) I will say this, due to the small space these baybies need to be as well built as possible to function this requires a lot of tools that most don't have, $1500 and up in tool cost I'd say
There is no rule that submarines cannot be armed. As others have pointed out, most submarines built in 1/144 scale are simply too small to fit the cannon systems developed for the hobby to date. Only some of the very large submarines like the Japanese 1-400 and French Surcouf are big enough to make carrying a cannon practical. And even these vessels are a challenge to successfully build and operate. I'm hoping to build a sub someday (probably the I-400) but will most likely use it as an unarmed ship for convoy missions.
CruiserKiller, the I-400 was the largest submarine prior to nuke boats and is therefore the largest in our hobby. It is just under 33 1/2 inches in length and 3 1/4 inches at the widest point. The Surcouf is smaller and therefore will be harder to build. Ralph Coles sells a very nice Surcouf hull in 1/72 scale if you wanted to build an RC sub. J
Slightly larger then the Surcouf and slightly smaller then the I-400 was the American USS Argonaut. In 1/144 scale, she would be 31.75" long and 2.8" wide. She's probably the closest to an Allied sub to being buildable.
If you want to see what the RC submarine hobbiests are doing, take a look at the forums at subcommittee.com. Ron
I think it would be possible to make an armed sub in 1/144th scale. It would probable have to use a spurt gun and tiny (airsoft- style) CO2 tank to save space. You'd have to use a <1mAh LiPo and a ~180 brushless outrunner to save on space. To dive I would use a sub-micro servo connected to the bow planes. It wouldn't be easy to cruise underwater, (I have a model Akula SSN set up this way) but you could dive momentarily to escape. Approach, fire, dive, then let up on the stick. By then the shipp you attacked would either have sunk or moved on to other targets. Just some ideas, anyway.
screwed that up, been a while since I posted any pics, not sure what happened? the full pictures are in the file manager. the top 3 are of the the same plans that I had gotten off the web for the I-400 and are the same that was used to make the plug that Tug is pulling a mold from. the pics show the removable bottom to the MBT, the sub-sub deck that the hanger (PVC pipe) rests on, the cut outs for the hatches, the deckand some of the electronic equipment that will be going in. the pump is part of the snort system that I got from Caswell Inc. I've got 8 single shot torps planned for this boat and a deck gun. the stern section shows the hollow area for the rear dive plane control. the last pic is a different variation of the I-400 made from the plans I had gotten from BDE. this sub will have a repeater type torp system along with the rotating deck gun. its frame work is also denser, using 3/16 ply on 1-1/2" centers. with this one not only did I go with the 1 piece sub deck and split keels, I also added a one piece 1" below water line stringer/deck for added streangth and hull accuracy
@Mark: that's a very impressive sub there. What scale is it? Also, how do you plan to seal the rotating deck gun? Most cannons I've seen are either sealed or rotating, not both, so I'd be very interested to know. @Dave: combat submarines in 1:144 scale are not only possible, they already exist. Armed, diving submarines occasionally participate at my local club, the WWCC. Some of these submarines date back to the 1990's, and are built with standard-sized servos, a bulky radio, and NiCD batteries. Despite being built with older gear, these two submarines (I-400 and Surcouf) are capable of cruising underwater for extended periods of time, and surfacing to attack. There is absolutely no need for brushless motors, although LiFe batteries (LiPoly is not safe for combat ships) would be great. BTW, I recently acquired a fiberglass I-400 hull. My brother Gascan already has one, so we'll probably build submarines once we're done refitting our battleships.
Kotori, It's 1/96 scale, as far as sealing the deck gun I am looking into using something like a stuffing tube where it goes through the hull and making the rotating mech as air tight as possible with a possible grease fitting. a good source of parts is at servocity.com
well here's some pics of the BDE I-400. its just loosely put together (lots to do to it yet) but the joints hold it well enough to move it around without falling apart
Something that might help picture size ... When you select the picture, go to the picture size block and use 750 instead of the original number. That will resize the picture into an easily seen size that won't get cut in half.
