Safety Question on check valves?

I'd say from a safety standpoint, these could and should be treated as a firearm.

At the "official" ranges I frequent (as in other than a friends backyard or gravel pit), to have the range consider cold, the Range Officer must be able to quickly and easily tell that the firearm unloaded. This is done by having the mag released and the bolt locked back (that's why I can't take my akm to some ranges, the bolt does not lock back). it's quickly and easily able to see that the firearm is clear, and the range can be called cold.

I know the systems of these guns are much different, but safety is safety. The CD had the duties of the RO when it comes to the pits. The CD calls the pits cold, so it should be a quick, and easy visible check for the CD to verify the guns are cold. yes, the CD can trust the captains and hope something doesn't happen (which is not a very safe way to operate). or can go babysit and watch everyone individually make their ships cold, but there should be some way to quickly and easily identify a cold ship.

Having a check valve in line, in my opinion, is like the reason I can't take my AKM to some ranges. The bolt does not lock back, so the chamber cannot quickly and easily be verified empty by a walk by visual check. there still could be a round in the chamber. With a check valve the possibility there is still air in the system is still there, and without firing the guns, there is no other way to verify it's empty, Unless the CD is going around and checking each boat individually.

 

That is why we PIN our guns. With the gun pin in place , it is safe.
The gun pin is like a open bolt, only in reverse.

 

is there any regulations on pins used, to meet a certain strength? is it possible for a full powered shot to blow through a pin?

 

Before we go farther, have you been to a battle? Built a ship? Seem these ships in person?

 

Even the filmiest pins I have seen holds up, but only if inserted across the barrel in a hole drilled at the end.
You should really go to a battle, at least once.

 

Yes. No.

The rules state, the pin must be metal and capable of stopping the discharge of a BB.

For this one you don't need to go to a battle, just read the rules.

That said, yes check valves could cause an unsafe condition and anything down stream of them should be vented properly. That's why there are multiple layers of safety, gun pins are the last resort.

 

Check valves have been in use for at least 19 years. Standard procedure is to turn off your bottle vent your guns and take out the bottle. Regular battlers know this and do this. New battler learn quickly. Not an issue.
The most dangerous thing we do is battle in water over our heads. Or maybe the 10-22 hour drives we take to battles. Driving is very dangerous.

 

Seems like a few just want to shut down any conversation on the matter.

I dont believe safety is something you should learn over time in any hobby. you do learn it, but it should be a top priority, and should be something that is activly thought about.

safety experience doesnt go out the window when you start a new hobby

Also, people can make mistakes, and say forget a gun pin. And from my share of guns I've seen (in person), and from years or racing, you wouldn't be able to see a pin in every gun of a ship at 5 feet away. No way would anyone be able to call cold relying on those.

And iirc, just compressed air itself is a hazard. like 12 psi or something that low to pop an eyeball. 40 to blow out an ear drum. I would say there could be enough left in the system for thos to happen, not that anyone would be eye level or ear level and close to a gun. And I'd also say there wouldn't be enough to worry about having the air enter breaks in skin and causing air to get into the bloodstream or anything like that.

And last time I checked it's rather safe than sorry.

 

One of the biggest safety issues in the pits is tall ship signal masts .

They usually stick up from the center of the ship in some cases 15 inches from the deck. Sharp ends at eye level can cause serious injury.

Rubber caps should be applied to the ends of all rigging to prevent injury. Traffic cones should be used around all carts that are used to launch large ships, to prevent tripping.

Serious issues that should be addressed.

 

Carl is on the money.. the closest I have ever come to an injury was last year when I almost made an eyeball kabob on a mast. I am very protective of my eyes and have in fact taken 3 direct hits to the eye in the 12 total years I have bene involved in the hobby and each time my safety glasses did their job and did not crack. There is a higher chance of getting in a car wreck on your way to the battle than getting hit in the eye by these guns (Ok.. I had 1 wreck in 12 years... so math is off for me). That is also the reason we have strict rules in the pits and if you attend a battle you will see first hand what the situation is. You are welcome however to wear your safety goggles, face mask, chest armor, bodyguards and/or bubble wrap yourself for the entirety of the battle

I have shot myself in the hand at point blank range many times and had a numb red thumb for 15 minutes and some soreness for an hour or so and with no break in the skin. I can't even think of a way to cause any type of serious injury other than to my eyes in this hobby... maybe if I load a rusty bb that I took out of the toilet and dipped in poison and then put it in my ship and went all scarface with it in the pits.. then maybe. I played paintball and was in pain for DAYS.... and they let kids run around with those things all the time.

We have had these rules for a long time and they work.. just follow them.. if you don't.. you WILL be reminded in the pits as we tend to self govern. Sometimes I wear my glasses because I get used to them (and they have magnifiers in them) so just do that and you will be fine.

Get on the pond and have some fun!

 

Good lord I wish the pond wasn't frozen over and I would be out there so fast it would make the earth spin!
I am ready for summer plz.
Craig

 

More like the experienced and knowledgeable presenting FACTS VS. typist speculation...

 

Easy there big fella, Safety with guns is important, hence rule one: Safety is the individual responsibility of each member at all times. so Anyones opinion on safety should be heard

 

Actually, on a gun the SAFETY is the pin.
The open bolt is the empty regulator.
With guns, saying you are out of ammo is not good enough.

 

Raising a concern is fine, but once it addressed (many times over in this case), it’s typically the time to say THANK YOU and then go about gaining actual experience by building a boat, rather than return to the keyboard and claim that the ‘issue’ is being brushed under the rug.

Actual battlers take safety very seriously, and we use defense in depth to minimize the chance of injury (depressurize co2 system, remove bottle, pin guns, don’t try to shoot guns unless known depressurized)

 

Granted. Sorry if I came across the wrong way. It just appeared to me that the general consensus amongst the combat veterans is these boats are, and have been, safe with the current rules. And this isn't a new hobby.
I took the above poster's comment as meaning the combined experience presented by the vets was some sort of obstructionism. Like we were trying to hide something. Sorry if that wasn't what you meant...

 

Still kind of solid. May break next week, the deer don't walk on it anymore.
They are very safely minded.

 

We all have valid points about safety. Sometimes we do not type diplomatically.
I made it through several situations even though equipment that was supposed to keep me alive failed.
Good lively discussion

 

I would love to try the potato cannon now to see what happens.... video?

 

I stepped in a thorn at Wades and my foot swelled up. For several days I couldn’t walk. Until the little chunk of tree squeezed out.
John S stepped on a fish hook. Sent to the clinic for a tetnis shot and got back to battling.