RE: "The Cheapest Point of Entry" I will be posting the plan and profile view shortly, when we get to the lesson on attaching frames and keels to the keelboard... The plans have the frame locations, which are NOT evenly spaced. Haven't heard any feedback from Matt yet, either! As to the lumber size issue, Lowe's has 4x4, 2x4, and 2x2 pieces of plywood. And my Lowe's is not nearly as nice/complete as several that I've seen while travelling!
RE: "The Cheapest Point of Entry" Maybe he's still sawing. Are you going to build one yourself through the thread until it reaches battle-ready state?
RE: "The Cheapest Point of Entry" Another possibly source for wood is a well equipped lumber yard (not Lowes or Home Depot, but a real lumber yard). I found one within a 40 minute drive that had 5' x 5' sheets of quality 7-ply birtch plywood for a modest $39 a sheet. The wood is smooth finished on both sides. Hardness falls between aircraft ply and the 3-ply junk Lowes sells. Another option is to find a full size aircraft building material store. I used Wicks once, who had 4' x 4' x 3/16" sheets of high quality aircraft grade ply for just over $50. Unfortunatly, it cost me as much to get it shipped. Lesson learned!
RE: "The Cheapest Point of Entry" I've picked up pretty good ply at cabinetry stores. There's a Rockler near me that I've purchased from. Usually have a good selection of partial sheets panels of differing material, ply count and dimensions.
RE: "The Cheapest Point of Entry" @Nick - I will be building one as the thread progresses... one lesson at a time. If I am putting too much detail in the lesson posts, it's because I am explaining this such that I would hope ANYONE could do this with no prior experience. @ Mike - I don't know of any actual lumberyards near me; it'd be nice to have one, but I'm not holding up the project to search at this point. I'm on lunch, now, so I'll be running to Lowe's to check their lumber. If it's at all reasonable (or maybe even a little less than reasonable, but cheap), I might use it just to see how it holds up in combat. After all, my main ship for next year will be the Moose, not Pommern. I do hope to hear from Matt (otherwise, I'm doing this myself for no reason), and anyone else aspiring to the Order of the Iron Jigsaw, 2nd class.
RE: "The Cheapest Point of Entry" Wouldn't it be better to get actual planks of wood that are 1/4" thick for the ribs? I deal with a lot of 3/4" stock, especially for my superstructure, and I'm sure they have that lying around somewhere... or would that end up being too flimsy or prone to breaking? I ask because the idea of a total scratchbuild really does appeal to me.
RE: "The Cheapest Point of Entry" By the way, thanks for the hull ribs Clark. I found some scanned copies of the original drawings that sadly lacked rib stations. Together, I should be able to get a pretty accurate set of plans made. It would be very odd to say you complete me, but you did complete the ship. Heh. These little German PDNs are going to be great ships. Slightly smaller than my little Verite, a little narrower, has that middle shaft right behind the rudder for good turning, and it's loaded with casemented guns. With MWC and Treaty's PDN sidemount rule, the PDNs give way more bang for the buck than a 3.5 unit cruiser!
RE: "The Cheapest Point of Entry" Tyler showed up at a winter building meeting one day with a wood hull. Had only heard from him once before. I was shocked at how well he had built it with no help. Latter that year he battled it. NATS the next year he had a DD to, plus a BC on the ways. Our 2008 Rookie of the Year put together a list of parts he purchased. Sorry it was in Excel, but bottom line it was a very good ship built pretty cheap yet with some good stuff (Solenoids). Little over $800. He spent less as some of the stuff from myself and others were free. Part Part Number Number/Notes Source Cost Wood For Hull 5 ply Aircraft Plywood Balsa USA.com $62.02 Epoxy Low V Marine epoxy (1.5 quart kit) epoxyproducts.com $44.00 Small Bilge Pump SBLG6 battlersconnection.com $27.50 Standard Regulator RG140 battlersconnection.com $34.00 3.5 oz CO2 bottle BTL 35 battlersconnection.com $59.00 2 Solenoids KIP27 battlersconnection.com $100.00 Battery Charger Schummacher 1.5 Amp (SEM-156A 6V/12V) Batteries Plus $37.43 2 Guns Build with Bob Bob H $50.00 2 Drive Motors From Bob Bob H $10.00 7 Radio box switches From Bob/Ax Man Bob H $7.00 Wire From Bob (He's an electrician) Bob H $5.00 6 Batteries ELK SLA Battery 6V, 5Ah Bob H $60.00 Hoses From Bob Bob H $5.00 Accumulation Tanks Build with Bob Bob H $5.00 ABS for Superstructure Bought from Andy Andy T $7.00 Low profile rudder servo HiTec HS-77BB Hobby Store $29.99 3 Radio Box Servos 12.99 each X3 Hobby Store $38.97 U Joints/Dog bone Dumas2008 Complete coupling 1/8" Hobby Store $12.50 Radio JR Sport 6-Ch Hobby Store $159.99 Rudder Shaft Gear Hobby Store $5.00 Rudder Servo Gear Team Associated NTC3 48 Tooth Spur Gear (No 2263) Hobby Store $4.00 Brass (shafts etc.) Hobby Store $10.00 4 Deans Connectors Hobby Store $10.00 CA Glue Hobby Store $15.00 Dope Hobby Store $11.00 Sheeting Balsa Hobby Store $15.00 Rudder Stuffing Brass Home Depot $10.00 Caulking Silicone II 100% Silicone Sealane Kitchen and Bath Home Depot $5.00 BBs 5000 Silver BBs Walmart $5.00 Total $839.40
RE: "The Cheapest Point of Entry" I am tempted. I have always liked Pommern. I have a fondness for ships with a tragic history. Hence my fondness for the Borodino's and Imperial Russian Ships in general.
RE: "The Cheapest Point of Entry" @Anach - Tragic? Getting bloweded up with the loss of all hands isn't tragic enough? I am holding off on building Evstafi (again!) until I know whether the big casement rule proposal passes, as it will make doing the hull much easier. So figure something to saw wood on for Spring between battles. @Bob - thanks for the list! I will also be working with Brian to get the step-by-step build on the MWC How-To's page, once it's further along. I am keeping very good records of what has been bought and what it cost (as well as doing speculative price-shopping for parts we'll need in the future). @Everybody - I made a budgetary decision! I found 3-ply 1/4" plywood in a 2' x 4' sheet of sufficient strength to satisfy me, for $8.46, which is not as nice as the fancy hobby ply, but definately strong enough, and more in keeping with our theme. More importantly, when used with our 80 cents worth of paper and our $8.28 jigsaw, it leaves us $22.46 in the kitty to use to help buy (relatively) expensive tools and parts later!! So, tonite, I will do the lesson on laying out the ribs, cutting the paper, and glueing paper to plywood! Matt, if you're still there, go to Lowe's or Home Despot and buy one 1/4"x2'x4' piece of 'Sand Pine Plywood'. I found it near the dowels and shaped wood in the back, hope that helps.
RE: "The Cheapest Point of Entry" @Miller From the same folks who bring you Office Despot. @Tug Well should I say 'Explosive"? I was reading something the other day that postulated she hit a mine rather than being torpedoed. When I make my WW1 Centennial trip to France I am going to pop over to Germany to visit the German Naval Memorial. Some relics from Pommern are housed there.
RE: "The Cheapest Point of Entry" Indeed they are. A friend of mine took a number of photos of the (can't remember proper term) fancy things that go on the bow and stern, which were retrieved from the wreck. Fancy word in German for them. Anyhow, with a British destroyer having fired torps at her, and no mines reported in the area, I'll let the limeys take credit for now. Tomorrow is a big day, children! We will start cutting wood BY HAND! I've also been doodling propaganda posters for the project, in between giving shots to children. Ah, from fun to fun, and back to fun again
RE: "The Cheapest Point of Entry" I hold to the torpedo theory myself. I had never heard of the mine theory before so it stuck in my mind. The end of May 1916 was not a happy time for the RN. They needed to get a bit of their own back.
RE: "The Cheapest Point of Entry" Herr Tugboat, Please continue this thread even if Matt isn't paying any attention to this. I for one, am very interested in doing a model of the Pommern eventually. I think pre-dreads rock. Thank-you, Chase
RE: "The Cheapest Point of Entry" Yes, please do continue, even though Matt, at last report, is being made to scratchbuild his own ship (see also his thread in the Ship Comparisons section of the forum), and he's going for the U.S.S. Arizona. That'll be a tough ship to scratchbuild because of the casement details, but with a little elbow grease, it shouldn't be too hard. I'm looking forward to learning what a scratchbuild looks like when done with hand tools and low-end power tools... my best tools available are a power mitre table saw, a jigsaw, a drill, and a dremel kit, and I'm muddling my way through an Iowa, lol. This will be very informative to me, since the notion of building a Yorktown-class aircraft carrier for campaign sounds like a lot of fun.
RE: "The Cheapest Point of Entry" Carry on indeed! It is motivating me. One other advantage to this approach is that it uses less space than the massive power tool way of doing things. Very handy.
RE: "The Cheapest Point of Entry" I'm going to third the request for you to keep building. I have several friends that will be interested in following this (as well as myself) who are thinking about joining the hobby, and it'll be a great resource to refer new people to who are interested in scratchbuilding and cost.
RE: "The Cheapest Point of Entry" Well, since I've spent so much money on the project, I'd hate to give it up! The next lesson is in progress, I am drawing lines on the ribs, and need to get enough drawn to show step-by step what goes on. My A/C went out yesterday evening, so that slowed me down while I was troubleshooting it. Anywho, a new lesson tonite on laying out ribs, cutting the patterns, and glueing them to the wood. With the savings in wood price, I was briefly tempted by the red single-speed dremel clone in Harbor Freight ($19.99!)... but being that I have a price list of non-negotiables (CO2 tank, regulator, radio, etc), I decided to forego the power tool. Wait till you guys SEE what I'm planning to do on saving the price of props! No early reveals but it's gonna be cool. Might even work, although I'm glad it's a low speed vessel we're playing with.
