RE: "The Cheapest Point of Entry" Getting started Need additional info. Next task. Mount frames/ribs #’s 5-17; square and perpendicular to the keel Frames mounted on 2” or 2 1/8” centers? i was going to send some pictures to see if i have enough notches in the right places, but i can't seem move them from there to here. just a suggestion, as a former scout master, master instructor at a tech school, and currently just a grumpy ol'man if you are truly teaching at a 101 level as important as it is to show the how; it is equally valuable to enunciate the task with the steps involved to do them it gives the student exposure to the correct vocabulary, the tools, and techniques necessary to get there on his own next time. unfortunately the more we master our craft the more we come to expect from any one new to the game. mate
RE: "The Cheapest Point of Entry" luckily my workshop is neat. im the quartermaster for my troop, so i have great organizing skills, now if i could just aplly that skill to my room......
RE: "The Cheapest Point of Entry" MATE: 2 1/8" centers. Notches on the forward and stern keels are also 2 1/8" spacing. Fwd keel has notches for frames 18 & 19. Stern keel has notches for 1 & 2, although frame 3 sits atop the stern keel where the stern keel overlaps the main keel. I will take some specific photos of those areas in the morning. Basic steps are glue frames 4 - 17 on main keel, starting at the forward end, 1" from the end of the main keel. That 1" allows room for the forward keel to overlap and thus, be glued to, the main keel. All frames should be perpendicular to the main keel, although a bit of leeway is allowed. Please do feel free to ask questions or point out (politely) where the instructions could be better. I do want this accessable (even if challenging) to a new builder. Mike, if you are angling for the Big Scharnie hull, shoot me an email or a pm and we can talk.
RE: "The Cheapest Point of Entry" Clark do we need to have an intervention (or a boat off!?). Or do I need to employ you making lots of wood...hulls. Giggity.
RE: "The Cheapest Point of Entry" One of the boys is going to make off with one of the hulls int he shop, so that'll be one less Brandon, I would be happy to make a boat hull for you. Gotta pay for guns and valves for the Moose!
RE: "The Cheapest Point of Entry" When I get the other Evstafi done, I'll be down to 31! But the number of operational ones is going to go up... I need to build some racks to hold my ships! Had to run to the doc this morning, so no posting of pics yet, but tonite that will happen. I will also be epoxying the subdeck tonite before posting, so I can get some inhaled-fume-driven posting in For those interested, SB-102 will be doing a Pommern using cardboard frames to generate a one-off fiberglass hull (I'm at work now and this is my escapism in action... thinking about building boats)
RE: "The Cheapest Point of Entry" Racks are a great idea. Not only does it make the clutter look less cluttered but it allows you to admire your handiwork. SB-102 sounds great. SB-200 series should be bigger more complex boats SB-300 series could be insanely big boats - Mooses, Vanguards, Iowas SB-400 series could be insanely small boats - Othar and his kin. Just ideas.
RE: "The Cheapest Point of Entry" I am getting the camera hooked up to the pc to upload the pics for 'how to do the subdeck'... give me a few minutes, young padawan.
RE: "The Cheapest Point of Entry" "Being a Padawan is harder than I thought!" nice tug Star Wars ( padawan) I think i am older tho
RE: "The Cheapest Point of Entry" Having completed lesson 1: Frames and more frames, you are now ready to progress to Lesson 2: The subdeck. The 'subdeck' is a 1/4" thick piece of plywood that connects the tops of all the ribs together, or at least a lot of the ribs. In our case, the tops of the 3 aft-most frames are at a lower level than everything else (this is called a 'stepped deck', because the deck steps down to a lower level, vice sloping gently down). The subdeck is slightly crucial, structurally speaking, and it really strengthens the whole assembly nicely. Getting everything lined up is very important, because once we get this all glued up, it'll be hard to fix a significant twist int he hull or anything of that nature. SO! Attention to detail is key. It won't ever be perfect, but we want to get it right. Sit your assembly on the sheet of plywood, with the keel UP and the tops of the frames DOWN against the plywood (i.e. upside down). Like below: Now, some of your frames may not touch the board (there IS a little bit of curve to the hull), and that's okay. I start by making a pair of marks that indicate the inside of the 'tabs' on top of each frame, as shown below. These little marks are followed up by marks on the forward and aft side of each tab (remember, two per frame!!) The pencil is pointing at the juction of two marks Lastly, make one more mark, across the outboard face of the tabs, as shown below. The frame that the pencil is pointing at is the last frame before the 'step' in the deck... So, it's more or less the end of the main subdeck (you'll see what I mean in a few pics). So, do these little marks for ALL the frames, remembering DO NOT LET THE FRAME/KEEL ASSEMBLY MOVE!! If it does, move it back to where it is sitting within the marks you've already made.
RE: "The Cheapest Point of Entry" ps- 46 is still young. No one who is within 10 years of my age is 'old'. It's a moving goalpost, but I'm comfortable with that. pps - there is still more to this lesson, I just broke it up a little. Posting the rest as I type it and it IS all getting posted tonite.
RE: "The Cheapest Point of Entry" You may move your frame/keel assembly from the plywood. You should have a bunch of little pencil-mark boxes on the wood, like below: Now, draw a nice fair line connecting the outside edges of the boxes, like below. If in doubt about how to draw the line, err on going wider than neccessary, we can always sand some material away later. Note that at the back end of the subdeck, where the 'step' is, and thus the stern end of the subdeck is, I went 1/4" past the last frame, then drew a straight line across. That'll help keep that last frme there strongly connected Forward of frame 14, where the main deck narrows (and the forward casements are), I also went 1/4" past frame 14 to give it a solid mounting. I don't like to trust a glue joint without any joinery to hold it together! Anyhow, that section is pictured below: But as I looked over my work, and was about to declare that it WAS good... I saw this: The nose of the ship looks to be aiming to STARBOARD!!!?!?! Yes, when you do this kind of skinny keel, the skinny frames at the bow can get a little off. Like I said in the intro to this lesson, you want this to be right! So how do we fix that? We go back several frames to the main section of the ship, and mark the centerline between some of the big frames. From those marks (seen below), we literally draw a centerline on the plywood. we can then center the wayward frames on the real centerline... making the ship straight and true. Isn't that pretty? Below is a view of this from further back. You can also see the line I drew around the inside, which represents where we will cut out an opening which is how we get access to all the guts of the ship later. I just drew a line about 3/4" in from the outside edge, and made it look pretty in odd areas like around where the casements start at frame 14... So, now we have the lines laid out!! Time to cut wood!! Note that I just went around the casement indented area... I came back and cut those after I'd got the subdeck separated from the big piece of ply. When you're cutting, err on going wide of the line... WE CAN ALWAYS SAND MORE OFF, BUT IT'S HARD TO PUT MORE ON! (Or at least, to put more on and have it look decent) So get busy, mein schweinhunden!!! Cut!! CUUUUT!!!!
RE: "The Cheapest Point of Entry" Zo, schtudentz! Ve haff cut out ze subdeck, ja? Vat iss it zuppozed to look like? Behold! Note interesting size comparison to a Musashi also in the shipyard... The Invincible in the background belongs to another student who is taking on-campus lessons. Note the small gap between the top front of the forward keel and the subdeck above it. This will be discussed in the next lesson (after I camp mit der Boy Shkouts dis veekend, vere ve vill be learning them how to make ze antitank ambushes, ja?) Below is a pic of the forward casement area; soon we will be putting in the stringers and casement decks!! How awesome! The casement area just screams coolness to me; not sure why. But I am SO scribing 'Pillar of Autumn' under the Stbd casement (where the forward-firing gun will be mounted). Anybody got a Halo font I can get a copy of? Below is a shot of the main subdeck, looking forward at it... So, there we are. Starting to look like a ship. I will be doing the stern subdeck shortly, and stringers. You may do the stern subdeck if you feel froggy, but DO NOT mess with the stringers yet, please. To everyone actually building one of these fine little ships, thanks for inspiring me to actually be mad enough to do a class on it The big ships are cool and all, but the 26-second 2-gun WWI cruisers are an absolute BLAST to battle. You will not be able to stop laughing as you dance nimbly thru the battle line, where the faster WW2 cruisers fear to tread
RE: "The Cheapest Point of Entry" @ Anachronous - My secret to staying young: marry a much younger, good-looking female lawyer who puts up with you God knows why mine does, but I'm comfortable with that remaining a mystery
RE: "The Cheapest Point of Entry" Interesting. I'm comparing notes here with my preferred building style, and I notice several major differences. 1) order of operations. You started with the ribs, and built a subdeck to match. I prefer to start with subdeck, and build ribs to match. I find that, by starting with the subdeck, I can avoid most of the wavy-gravies that wooden hulls usually encounter, or at least conceal them far below the waterline. Is there any particular reason for building ribs first, or is that just how you've always done it? 2) joinery. I notice a lot of wooden-hull-builders use lots of complex joinery, like the notches in your subdeck and ribs, etc. when assembling hulls. I have never used much joinery, and simply used superglued butt joints for connecting ribs, keels, subdecks, etc. Is there some reason for all the joinery (even if it's just to look nice), or is that just because everyone else uses joinery?
RE: "The Cheapest Point of Entry" 1) I do ribs first because I like to. Also, a lot of plans are not scaled correctly, and it's easier to scale the frames drawings than the plan view drawing of the whole ship. Yeah, one still has to make allowances when building the SS (if the profile view was off), but the hull will be the correct shape. Also, it's easier to do hulls with a slope to them by going from the keel up (like my Vanguard). I find that attention to detail takes care of issues with 'waviness'. Mike Mangus does his hulls upside-down, with little vertical legs on each rib to bring them into alignment, and his method works. Like many fields of endeavor, there are several equally acceptable methods to accomplish the goal. I just happen to teach mine. 2) I do not trust glue-only joints. They aren't as strong as joinery, regardless of the glue used. Superglue is vulnerable to fracture when hit with an impact, and epoxied butt joints are weak sisters. Granted, in our application a particular joint has many others to back it up, but it remains weaker than it could have easily been. My Vanguard could have been dropped 10 feet onto concrete and would not have suffered major structural damage (made only from 1/4" ply). Overkill, but it's a safety margin against rough handling. Or, if it gets stepped on while searching for it in muddy water. Rar. (Note: Vanguard frame was not that heavy, either. I had to add a crapton of batteries and ballast to get to scale model weight) Additionally, there is the issue of craftsmanship. If you put one of my hulls together without glue, you can pick up the ship and carry it around. It locks together that well. I freely admit that it gives me a lot of pride to be able to see my ships fit together that well. If I settled for less, it would not be nearly as satisfying. It also means that I get a stronger join, with less adhesive used. Not a significant cost factor, but hey, Save t3h Pl4n3t and all that. If I bought a ship that had butt joints, at a minimum, I'd drill it for pins to reinforce the joints, just to be safe YMMV.
