Hi, guys. I found this posted on the Micro RC Center forum, and thought it fit into this topic very well. The first post was by my brother, the second by Umi Ryuzuki. ---------------------------------------------------------------- A lot of new people have similar questions about their favorite class of ship, and it might be a good idea to have some general answers from each of the different types of clubs (1/72, 1/144 biggun, 1/144 smallgun). Feel free to add your own comments, experience or make a similar list for your own club. 1/144 Biggun clubs Battleship, Battlecruiser: Large, expensive, but second most recommended for newbies. The extra displacement gives increased breathing room in battle (although its also a larger target) and allows for rookie mistakes during construction. Armament is from 6 to 12 guns 7/32 to 1/4 caliber. Armor is usually 1/8" balsa. Excellent variety to choose from (speed, armament, gun layout, nationality). Dreadnought: Smaller size means more difficulty in fitting in the same guns. Almost all go at the minimum speed (about 25 kts). 1/8" armor and 1/4 and 7/32 (more common) guns so they can still dance with the big boys, just not long. Heavy Cruiser: NOT a good starting ship. Small size makes precision very important. An error will have a much larger effect and is not as easily fixed. Similar number of guns as BBs but a smaller caliber, many also have torpedos. Armor is usually middle class (3/32" balsa). Greater speed and smaller, quicker guns usually make this a transport-killer or destroyer-killer. Should be able to outrun anything it doesn't outgun and outgun anything it can't outrun. Although it looks like it can, it will not stand up to battleships in combat. Destroyer, Light Cruiser: Not a good starting boat, but a challenge for more experienced builders. Small size limits armament to either all torpedos or only guns. The fastest boats on the pond (without a doubt) they are most often used as a torpedo boat: carry a nasty little bite in a small, fast package. Smallest armor (1/16") provides little protection, small size and high speed make up for it. Not very seaworthy (1" waves are the scale of 12'), easy to swamp, very little reserve bouyancy if hit. Often a single hit below the water line is all that is needed. Must carefully set up attacks on bigger ships to strike when they're distracted. Transports, Cargo Vessels, Oilers, Etc.: The best boat for a rookie to build. An excelent stepping stone to gain practice and experience for later projects. Large size and spacious hull make installing equipment easier and provide plenty or "wiggle room" for mistakes (admit it: no matter how good you are, you WILL make mistakes. Experience just means you've moved on to new problems that other people haven't found yet.) Often unarmed (not always) and mostly the slowest ships on the pond, they are very simple to build and operate. The big punch is completing convoy runs, scoring points for delivering "cargo." Often a battle is won or lost based on cargo ships, and battles become more interesting with them around. Despite their value, they are mostly regarded as unarmed targets. Skippers often become very cynical before building something larger with a thirst for revenge. Aircraft Carriers: Mostly impractical. Carry a number of fixed "aircraft equivalent guns". Large billboard target is a magnet for any spare shot. Kamikaze aircraft catapults score big when they hit, but you only got one shot. As fun as it is to imagine 1/144 scale Zeros and Hellcats duking it out over the battleships, it is impossible at this time to build one with current commercial technology (no guarrantees about several years from now). PT Boats: Micro-sized to the extreme. Very difficult to build, much less arm (although it has been done) they are not seaworthy in any sense of the word, lack the battery power to go through a battle, and have no practical place in biggun combat. Submarines: Also microsized to the extreme. The absolute largest submarine of the time was as large as a destroyer. Arm single shot (non-reloading) torpedos and make it entirely water-proof, make it penetrable, make it dive (AND surface again, a problem sometimes), then it must be run in combat. Always the slowest warships, you must catch up to a target, aim the guns and ram the target (at the correct depth) to fire. When done properly, it is devastating. The blast of air from the underwater torpedos knocks out a large chunk of balsa at or below the waterline, usualy sinking the target quickly. Modern RC sub technology would increase effectiveness and reduce difficulty. -------------------- Commander Eric Bitondo WWCC DKM Spah Kruezer SP-1 RMS Luigi Cadorna ------------------------------------------------------------------- 1/72nd scale combat Battleship, Battlecruiser; Big, these ships are really big. They border on mountainess. These ships are so incredibly huge in 1/72nd scale, that you would need a Ford "Enormous" to transport one, in fact, that one of these Fords, wouldn't even fit most battleships, as they will measure out to 11 or 12 feet long(although older ships may be only 8ft long). A separate trailer would need to be built to haul one of these to the pond. They currently may be armed with all main guns. There are up to five being constructed in this scale, over the last two years. Heavy Cruiser; Eight to ten feet long several of the "smaller" heavy cruisers have been fought over the years. They are almost unsinkable, but very vulnerable to destroyer attacks. A good destroyer captain can pull up to one of these ships while it is battleing someone else, and then park at the mid ship, and empty the magazine into the hull. They make fantastic, slow targets. We have had two very close to sinking. Typically armed with six 1/4" ball bearing guns. If not matched against another Heavy cruiser it will be the cause of a lot of lost points. Light Cruiser; Nice ships, fast, still a big target in a turn. Six feet to seven feet long, these ships are well armed. Only two have been sailed in 1/72nd scale. Their best tactic is to sail straight through formations, and fire as they pass targets. Plenty of volume in the boat and difficult to sink. Typically armed with four to five 3/16" ball bearing guns. Destroyers; The work horse of the fleet. There are two classes. Two gunners, and three gunners. The smaller two gunners are maneuverable and simple to build and operate. It is the best boat in 1/72nd scale to start out with. Building a two gun ship will teach the beginner the basics of construction and standard gun systems. The guns can be fought fixed in place, but are easy to rotate and later elevate as owner learns more about the systems They can get out of trouble as fast as they got into it. Three gun ships are a slightly larger target, but no less maneuverable. They typically have the advantage of fire a pair of rounds at one time rather than a single form the bow or stern like the smaller two gun ships. The disadvantage is that the guns are more difficult to rotate as a pair. Alot of ships will rotate the single, and fight the "pair" fixed on the bow or stern of the ship. the extra gun adds a moderate increase in cost. However it is usually the logistics of rotating a pair of guns that makes these ships more suited to vetran builders. PT boats All club members must run a Destroyer to be eligable to run a PT, or schnell boat. These are so small and compact, that specialized equipment needs to be built to keep the boats light, and afloat. at 20 inches or less, these boats can cost as much as destroyer to properly arm and run. Submarines: We have a "no ramming" rule in 1/72nd scale. Anyone can eventually chase down another boat and ram it. It was ruled as a no skill tactic. So Destroyers are not allowed to ram submarines, and visa versa. Ramming is just not allowed. If one occurs, everyone backs down, apologizes and continues playing. Submarines are even tighter for space than PT boats. To get the gun equipment in, and the equipment to run the submarine submerged has been something only two people have done in 1/72nd. No one in the club has been satisfied with the "sinkablity" of submarines to build one. The Destroyer captains created a hedge hog, forward launching depth charge system that could sink any submarine(by referee ruling) up to four times per 15 minute sortie. The people running submarines called "no joy", and submarines have not played since. This is mostly due to logistics, and the fact that two players had to be referees rather than sailing their ships in combat. LST These are only beginning to be recognized for their great potential to addtional games. They are true to their moniker Large Slow Target. The fact that 1/72nd scale tanks can be landed and sent after targets, supplies, or equipment(shore batteries) has not been lost on the club membership. It is just a matter of time before a great game is built around these boats. Cargo ships. The club keeps two outfited cargo ships for convoy games. This post has been edited by UmiRyuzuki: Jun 1 2005, 09:17 AM -------------------- user posted image Nyow! \ =^o^= ------------------------------------------------------------------ Now all we need here is something about the "little guns" and this topic will be complete
I remember my brother writing part of this for a different forum a while ago. All we need is the "little guns" viewpoint and this topic is complete
1/144 small gun clubs The MWC has an extensive ship list covering 1906 to 1946. This ship list documents ships from 23 countries covering 642 ship classes. Each ship class is assigned a speed, weight, and number of units. A unit is one offensive (cannon) or defensive (pump) device. The mixture of the units is up to the captain. The smallest ships are 1/2 unit, while the largest battleships are 8 units. Speed: Faster than big gun speeds. Small gun speed ranges from 34 seconds per 100ft for cargo ships to 21 sec per 100ft for destroyers. WWII battleships sail at 24 sec speed. Cannon: All ships fire the same size .177cal BB. The cannon are most often fixed in one direction. Aiming is done by steering the model. Rotating cannons are allowed, but few people bother with the complexity. There is no limit on cannon firing rate. This is another reason to retain the faster speed of small gun ships – time on target. Hull Skin: All ships are skinned with 1/32 balsa and must pass a hull hardness test. This is done because the smaller striking force of a BB must still put a hole 1 inch below the water line. Battleship: Speed 26 or 24 sec. 5.5 to 8 units. Not recommend for the beginner. The most complex and expensive. You’re the prime target, but you have the most cannons to spread the joy. Battlecruiser: Speed 26 or 24 sec. 4 to 5 units. The smaller battlecruisers are second most recommended for the beginner. Slightly wider and a bit heavier than a heavy cruiser. This allows for easier installation of internals. Maneuvering and staying power are good. Dreadnought: Speed 28 or 26 sec. 4 to 5.5 units. Smaller size and complex deck shapes means more difficulty in fitting the internals. Most maneuverable of the classes. These WWI battleships pack quite a punch. Heavy Cruiser: Speed 23 sec. 3 to 3.5 units. Good beginners ship. Just enough complexity to understand all the systems, with enough room in the hull to fit it. Maneuverability is fair. Typically stay at the perimeter of the battle looking for target of opportunity. Meaning those that are wounded and running from the battleships. Light Cruiser: Speed 22 sec. 2.5 to 3.0 units. Not a good starting boat, but a challenge for more experienced builders. Destroyer: Speed 21 sec. ½ to 1 units. Very difficult to build due to the light weight. Fast and difficult to hit. They don’t pack much punch. Transports, Cargo Vessels, Oilers, Etc.: Speed 34 sec, 0 units. No cannons, no pumps. Simply targets to shoot at during campaign play. Although this sounds un-appealing and boring they are surprising difficult to sink. Guarded by your teammates you can score thousands of points by traversing the home and forward bases. Aircraft Carriers: Speed 24 sec. 2 to 2.5 units. Some exist. None armed. Used as convoy ships in campaign play. Because most folks consider it a battleship game the rules have held carriers down. With only 2 units most don’t consider it worthwhile to build a carrier for one cannon. PT Boats: speed 28 sec, 1/2 unit. Six inches long! Very difficult to build. One functional PT boat exists in small gun. Unarmed and used only in campaign play. Although it runs at the slowest warship speed, it sure does seem to zip right along. Incredibly maneuverable. Submarines: speed 28 sec, 1 unit. More difficult to build than a destroyer. Three or four functional subs in small gun. Unarmed and used only in campaign play. One or two will dynamically dive due to the water action on the diving planes. No static diver due to ballast tanks. Mark DKM Scharnhorst Great Lakes Attack Squadron (MWC)
Very interesting. Mark, may I post your reply in the Micro RC Center forum, to finish the topic there? http://www.microrccenter.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=33621 I was under the impression that battlecruisers and treaty battleships were considered better beginner boats than heavy cruisers because they tend to survive fights (and rookie construction mistakes) better.
Mark is a good friend, I'm sure he wouldn't mind if you posted it. He is all about promoting the hobby. (He doesn't get to a computer very often, or he'd tell you himself.)
In small gun, there was a time when the cruiser was recommended for beginners but that changed to class 4 or small 5. Here's my thought on it. Subs, forget it. Carriers, dito on that. These are ok for the guy who already has competitive ships and is itching to try something totally different but realizes that they have little playability in teh sport. Cruisers- there are great and not so great. Armored cruisers are pretty good, nasty ram bow which is a great deterrent, impenetrable area but some have awkward turret positions or none at all, forcing you to exit the barrel through part of the supetructure. Most have a raised Forcastle which hinders the bow gun if used. Med size cruisers that are beamy work well like the Graf Spees. Long narrow cruisers are not very stable, don't turn as well IE Kent Classes , Baltimore Class. Some if set up right turn decent and others if not ballast properly in a narrow hull will always lean. If you get a cruiser make sure it has big turrets, plenty of room but not more than 4 ft. BattleCruisers- Not many large ones on teh Axis side but comparitevly I go with a Roma Battleship which is nearly equivalent in size to a Scharnhorst and it has extra units. The small class 4s usuasly are dreadnought types or predreadnought. They have complex casemates and deck patterns, good for the experienced, pain for the novice. Not the most seaworthy though some handle chop better than others. Most small class 4 are well protected, some are not like the INVINCIBLES. Most turn well though but internals are cramped. Battleships- ranging from the very small like the class 3 Michgans to the very large Yamato class. The small battleships are like the small battlecruisers, less room inside, not as seaworthy, slow but very maneuverable. Again this does not apply to every ship in this category. Warspites, Tennessess ect, that are med size class 5s are a little complex to build but offer a very good blend of combat capability. Cost is not as much as a large battleship or superbattleship for sure. Large to Superlarge battleships.Plenty of Large here. More expensive but definitly competitive, more options for improvements, more forgiving for mistakes, mostly seaworthy, most good maneuvering, avg 32 to 44 lbs mostly, lenths from 5 to 6 ft.More building time and more cost but odds are you will stay with it a lot longer due to the investment. IE My Bismarck 9 years, MY Yamato 7 years. Superbattleships - Only familiar with Yamato but looks like IOWA is good too, very expensive, very big and HEAVY.PLAYABILITY LOADS OF FUN!!! Very seaworthy in playable in most conditions. If your back is strong and you don't mind being shot up because you have such a large sea cow then it's great for the expereinced who doesn't mind dragging around a canoe! With any model treat it as a new project wit it's own uniqie quirks. Research research the model. Think about being competitive and not pretty. Think long term reliability and not short term.Try proven methods first and reinvent the wheel later after you learn more from your use of your model.
hmmm using the 1/144 a Life like vessel at 98,000 meters converts down to about 20 feet... and since these things are longer than width.. the width gets to a 2.6 feet from 11,519 meters.. I'm missing something.. ... for show of an example.. using this hull plan provided by the department of defense of France: http://www.servicehistorique.sga.defense.gouv.fr/02fonds-collections/banquedocuments/planbato/planbato/Plans/PROTET%201962/C%20RIVIE1958C001.tif IS this right? or did I miss something on the math? or do you scale this down further to maybe 4.5 feet by 6.2 inches? Or am I off keel.....???
26.8" sounds really tight for fitting combat systems. If the server was up, I'd go look at the ship. Hope they get it up soon! If this is your first ship, I'd strongly advise a larger one. Not beating ya up about it , but that's going to be very difficult to complete as a combat vessel.
I was looking around at ships for sale from dif club and found a Kirishima for sale. Its a big gun ship and im doing fast gun. Im not going to buy it but how hard would ti be to convert the ship to fast gun?
Its coming along super slowly. right now i only got the super structer and hull. Im about to move so that not helping either.
I thought classes 1-3 had spurt fire guns, while classes 4-7 had "single fire" Maybe I miss read the rules but I thought there was a distinct difference. Thanks, Stu
Any ship can have a semi-auto cannon so the firing rate is dependent on how fast the user can get the gun to fire. spurt cannons are more like full auto where you fire and out come 15 rounds or whatever and yes only the small ships can have those. truth is they really aren't used much anymore. basically its a one shot gun that can do a lot of damage but 50 rounds single fire can do more damage.
That depends on how you define damage. If you're counting points, yes semi-auto cannons have more point getting potential. If you're looking for a big hole though, spurt guns (also known as rip guns) have excellent damage potential. If a patient captain with spurt guns were able to get on target, the potential to blast a huge hole at someone's waterline is there. This well placed shot could put down just about any ship out there, IF its well aimed. That being said, being a one shot wonder I think would be rather boring. Regardless of the one shot potential, I wouldn't want to battle that way. Mike D
