Ships that can play both sides?

Discussion in 'General' started by wdodge0912, May 17, 2019.

  1. bsgkid117

    bsgkid117 Well-Known Member

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    If you can't properly ID that the 50"~ long cruiser with a 6"x9" American flag is allied because that ship is traditionally axis then I suppose you might have an issue, sure. But it wasn't a problem at 2019 NATs.
     
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  2. wdodge0912

    wdodge0912 Well-Known Member

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    "A captain whose ship is sunk by battle damage in the first sortie of a battle may use a secondary ship of Class 3 or below to reenter the battle at the beginning of a later sortie."

    I will have an Axis ship and an Allied ship to run as a primary ship, which would be a class 4, 4 units, or higher.

    It's when it comes to the secondary ship rule that I want something that could play either side. Since I'm limited to 4 ships total, and wanting a cruiser, predread, and a capital for each side, I have to make the compromise with having the cruiser able to be ran, as a secondary, on either side.
     
  3. wdodge0912

    wdodge0912 Well-Known Member

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    Now could it be the Soviet Navy flag?

    And for a cruiser only battle, would it be allowed?

    Not having been to a Nats, and with the secondary rule and the new rule that your secondary must play the same fleet, I just want to make sure that in a cruiser only battle if I show up and play Allied all week, but in a cruiser only battle, my only cruiser would be able to be Allied, or if I'd have to sit out since it wouldn't be a secondary in that battle. I'm assuming I wouldn't be able to switch sides for that battle.
     
  4. Kevin P.

    Kevin P. Well-Known Member

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    You’re getting wrapped around the axle on this. A few things
    1. Nothing typed on a forum has any implication on what would be allowed at an event
    2. Cruiser battle at nats is an unscheduled pick up battle that doesn’t count for fleet scoring, so it’s essentially the same as a regional battle where the teams are flag and no-flag
    3. Ships need to be on the ship list to participate
    4. I would not recommend planning to battle a ship on the non-traditional fleet at nats
    5. With that being said, most captains that show up to nats are reasonable and probably wouldn’t care
    6. Specifics of that decision are made on site by those that actually show up to the event
    7. For new captains, everyone else probably cares less
    8. If allowed to fight a ship on non-traditional fleet, that ship might be fired upon by both fleets. The cause of the friendly-ish fire will vary by captain
    9. Less typing, more building
     
  5. wdodge0912

    wdodge0912 Well-Known Member

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    Of course

    That's good to know, that was part of what I was asking about

    The Prinz Eugen is on the ship list, was asking if it could be ran Allied as a secondary if necessary due to not having a bunch of ships, specifically if it could be flown as the Soviet ship, even though the soviet ship of the class wasn't finished. There's ships that arent named on the list that are allowed of course.

    So would it be better to build a cruiser that was neither Allied or Axis, like something South American? What about French ships that would be Vichy and later Allied? Being Wife limited on the amount of ships I can have, and wanting a predreadnought and a class 4+ for each side, I would like to find some cruiser that would be legal for either side, not just as a new captianx but also later on as well.

    And can't build when parts havent shipped yet :( hoping for an update today.
     
  6. Bob

    Bob Well-Known Member

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    Having a secondary ship, either a cruiser or a predread is a must. Helps keep you in more sorties. Campaign is way more fun with one. Cruiser battle is a blast.
    There are several good “flipper” ships that can go both ways. Montcalm a French 2.5 unit cruiser. Radetsky a Austrian predread. An Italian 2.5 unit cruiser I can’t spell right Filbertino or something. Stick with French Italian or some other minor country. Taking German & Japs and flipping side is confusing.
     
  7. Litch42f

    Litch42f Well-Known Member

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    BC?
     
  8. wdodge0912

    wdodge0912 Well-Known Member

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    I have a Duca, or the Emanuele Filiberto Duca d'Aosta. However I'm thinking it might be too small of a ship. It seems weight is a very big deal with those so I was looking for something bigger. I have a French Verite Predreadnought right now as well.


    Yes. I placed my order back on the 29th.
     
  9. Litch42f

    Litch42f Well-Known Member

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    Still waiting on something to ship from the 21st. I did finally hear from them. I guess their day jobs have taken up all of their time.
     
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  10. kgaigalas

    kgaigalas Well-Known Member

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    This is why making so many more rules makes our battling confusing for New guys.o_Oo_O:crying:
    When we passed the secondary ship rule Between sorties that created part of this question :bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang:
     
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  11. Kevin P.

    Kevin P. Well-Known Member

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    Easy Kas. Most felt that the rule added value/prevented abuse. Allowing secondary ships was a good rule change (more pond time for captains). The rules can’t accommodate every obscure wish or desire. You need to weigh both the positives and the negatives, in this case I think the positives significantly outweigh the obscure negatives
     
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  12. kgaigalas

    kgaigalas Well-Known Member

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    I agree with rules and letting people battle SO, we need to be prepared to answer battlers questions.
    I also agree with more battling less typing.
     
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  13. bsgkid117

    bsgkid117 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with try to keep the potential flippers to the ships that should logically be flippers. Suffren is an awesome 3 unit cruiser, single prop, 2 drag discs, dual rudder, 2 guns full unit pump. 12.3lb so she's easy to build weight wise.

    That being said, the guys saying the backup ship rule is so confusing because they're experts at model warship combat silhouette recognition and they can immediately recognize the 50" cruiser that's 40 feet out in the lake need to take a deep breath. At NATs there were I think 3 or 4 french cruisers mixed between allied and axis and somehow that didn't create a problem.

    Build your primary ship as whatever allied/axis you want to fight as at NATs. At regionals, it'll be flag/no flag 99% of the time. If you have a pair of primary ships, one for each side, or you know you will get there eventually, then build your backup ship to be a neutral/flipper country. France, Italy. The Radetsky predread can flip as well due to The Zrinyi (spelling?) being commissioned into the USN and serving with a US crew for almost a year.

    The CD and fleet admirals will always get the final say, so don't count on an obscurity to make the game go the way you want. (But but but the Prinz Eugen was commissioned into the USN! It was IX-300! *incoherent screaming*)
     
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  14. kgaigalas

    kgaigalas Well-Known Member

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    For me, going to a NATS seems to answer a LOT of questions. :):)(I also had plenty:bang::bang:)
     
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  15. jadfer

    jadfer Well-Known Member

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    The backup ship rule is great and I support it. However if you want to use a war prize as an Allied ship because it was 'commissioned' as a USS/HMS ship then it should fly the USS/HMS flag. There IS confusion when the USS Prinz Eugen takes the water with the German Flag or the USS Zrinyi retains the Austrian flag.
     
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  16. wdodge0912

    wdodge0912 Well-Known Member

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    They give you any kind of timeframe when it would ship?

    I was talking about, if ran Allied, running it under the Soviet flag, since they had a ship that, even though not completed, did see some action.


    But it looks like the Prinz Eugen/Lutzow ran as the Soviets would still make a big stink

    Sorry I asked. But over this whole speil, there was a lot that's been cleared up.

    I have a Duca, so that would work for a side flipping ship. I was just trying to find a bigger ship, since the Duca really needs to watch it's weight. Just something easier to build. Also something that felt more Axis than Allied
     
  17. Kotori87

    Kotori87 Well-Known Member

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    Or when the flag is so small that it cannot be seen from more than a few feet away....
     
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  18. Litch42f

    Litch42f Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately, no.
     
  19. Renodemona

    Renodemona Well-Known Member

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    Duca is definitely not too small a ship, its like 10 lbs. Great cruiser.
     
  20. wdodge0912

    wdodge0912 Well-Known Member

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    From reading about the builds of the ship here on the forums, that for Duca to run well it needs to be kept under 8 pounds.