Ships that can play both sides?

Discussion in 'General' started by wdodge0912, May 17, 2019.

  1. wdodge0912

    wdodge0912 Well-Known Member

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    I just got notice earlier today that my order has shipped. I hope you got one as well
     
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  2. Renodemona

    Renodemona Well-Known Member

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    No, she is good at 9-10lbs with a max of 11.38. Even at 9 lbs that is easy peasy for a cruiser. When you're talking about smaller ships like the Cadorna etc yeah maxed at 8 but Duca is good.
     
  3. wdodge0912

    wdodge0912 Well-Known Member

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    The Z25 destroyer, was completed and in service by the Germans. It was also used by the British for like a month after the war, or something like that. It was however given to the French on February 2and 1946, commissioned February 4th 1946, and was in active service in September 1946. It was renamed Hoche in French service

    Being that that was all done pre December 31st 1946, would it be allowed to be flown under the German or French flag, and get to play whichever side the primary ship actually belongs to?

    This is more of what I'd call an "idea ship" or a pipe dream if you will. Plenty other ships Id have before it, but just thinking about things.

    Like I've said before, I'm a pretty isolated person, especially at my job where I work alone for the 8 hours I'm there, and there is lots of down time, so I got to do something to pass the time. Also have insomnia because of the 3rd shift work, so that dont make things any easier. I suppose that makes me a keyboard combatant, but I do work on stuff when I can.
     
  4. Lou

    Lou It's just toy boats -->> C T D <<-- Admiral (Supporter)

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    Just put a french flag on it and battle Allied, perfectly legal. You can also do Japan as allied for the WW1 versions
     
  5. wdodge0912

    wdodge0912 Well-Known Member

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    So in regards to Nats, and going forward with the ships I have, which would be better for being able to go Allied if I came with just that ship (I plan to have cruisers on both sides, but only looking for 1 more capital) Andrea Doria or a Yavuz? Which one would more likely get to go Allied at a Nats than the other?
     
  6. Kevin P.

    Kevin P. Well-Known Member

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    The allied fleet always has a lot more ships than axis, so there would be no need/desire to shift an Andrea Doria to the allied fleet. I don’t expect that trend to change over the next 5 years
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2020
  7. wdodge0912

    wdodge0912 Well-Known Member

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    The Yavuz is the Goeben under Turkish service. If by PE you mean the Prinz Eugen. And I figured as much for ship count.

    Sounds like if I want to play Allied, I need a dedicated one then?
     
  8. Kevin P.

    Kevin P. Well-Known Member

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    I think the answer is already documented in the 4+ pages of posts here. Showing up with a traditionally axis boat will come with an expectation that the boat fights axis. Allies typically outnumber axis by at least 50%, so if you have a primarily axis boat, it would be a better balance to fight it on the axis fleet. New members typically flock to the allies. If the fleets have a similar distribution of skill level it's more fun for all.
     
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  9. wdodge0912

    wdodge0912 Well-Known Member

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    Yea I just keep.trying to squeeze in a ship that can play Allied, even though it would normally be Axis, just to try and fit in what I have already and plan to have. Right now I have 2 German ships I for sure will finish, and looking at a 3red for a dedicated Axis cruiser. The side flipper was mostly because I wanted something smaller, that if my dad or wife, or some other relative wanted to go play, I could hand them that, and we would both be Axis, but then at the same time if there was a big swing that the vets took and went Allied, and All the new people went Axis, I'd have a ship I could go Allied with.

    I'll just stick to the secondary being a side flipper so it won't matter what side my capital goes on, it would fit.
     
  10. wdodge0912

    wdodge0912 Well-Known Member

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    So what's your personal opinion on the Yavuz, the Turkish Goeben? Ww2 Turkey was Allied, would it be Allied? It even is listed as a separate ship on the ship list.
     
  11. bsgkid117

    bsgkid117 Well-Known Member

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    At the end of the day, its a Moltke, in my opinion.
     
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  12. wdodge0912

    wdodge0912 Well-Known Member

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    so with that i'm at dedicated allied, or a ships such as the Spanish Espana, the Chilean Almirante Latorre, Brazilian Minas Gerais, or the Argentinean Rivadavia. the Chilean Almirante Latorre could be called the HMS Canada as well, wouldn't get the bulges, but could be set up as such, and built from those plans.

    Possibly the French since they would lean allied, but could play Axis? i take it there is enough French ships out there though that they all go one side together?
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2020
  13. Renodemona

    Renodemona Well-Known Member

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    French are Neutral trending Allied, Italians are Neutral trending Axis. Those are basically the 2 large navies are play either side in our hobby. Spanish ships are treated as neutral so the Espana is fine either side. Generally the Neutral ships have been Axis for the last several Nats and Nats is the only battle where that really matters. I battled an Italian battleship last year and was Axis admiral. If you want to battle Allied build an allied ship. Turkey was only "allied" in WW2 well after the fighting in that area was mostly done. Yavuz was highly axis in WW1 and the interwar period. True Neutrals are Swedish, Finnish, Spanish, and South American ships. I have plans for the Menas Gerias. Interesting ship but would be a total dog in combat.
     
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  14. Kevin P.

    Kevin P. Well-Known Member

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    I think the next step would be actually attending a Nats so you can see for yourself how the fleets work out. Local battles are almost always flag/no flag, so having 2 axis boats and 1 allied boat should not impact teams (having 3 boats functioning at the same time reliabily should be a bigger concern). I have both Espana and Rivadavia, some of the other true neutral ships would be plenty interesting, but would need to go with a wood hull or make a mold. I picked up Goff plans for Almirante Latorre but too similar to Agincourt for me to build it near term.
     
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  15. Anvil_x

    Anvil_x Well-Known Member

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    Huh, Menas Gerias looks like she's just a slightly more narrow Courbet. you could probably crank out some decent capability from that hull.

    I'd like to see that Rivadavia sometime, Kevin. I'm guessing with one powered prop plus a single big rudder that it has good maneuver results, and with 5.5 units, I bet you did all kinds of fun stuff.
     
  16. wdodge0912

    wdodge0912 Well-Known Member

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    I have to get the time off to go to a Nats, haven't made it a priority right now with my PTO just because I don't have a Nats ready ship, nor a secondary that I should probably have for a first Nats, since I will probably end up sunk (but I hope not). The 2nd Axis ship will be slow going, I'm not too concerned with getting that going and Nats ready for a while.

    It seems for me the HMS Canada/Almirante Latorre is the ship I should be going for then eventually. Put the British flag on it and it's the HMS Canada so it would have to be Allied. Fly the Chilean flag and it could be put with the Axis.

    I'm not opposed to having to build a hull, or having one made. it will again not be a ship I'm building for a while, my priority will be my Baden and a secondary cruiser for that for a Nats.

    But anyways the HMS Canada will be my goal for an Allied Ship since it can be played as Axis as Almirante Latorre if I felt like it (which would be if I have someone else I am supplying with a ship such as my dad, or if Baden is out of action for some reason). Unless something else interesting that is Allied comes along for sale before then of course
     
  17. Renodemona

    Renodemona Well-Known Member

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    2 shafts 1 rudder at 28 seconds with not a lot of casemates. Outturned by all the Germans and the little Brits, outrun by everything else, not a lot of hard area to mitigate damage.
     
  18. Anvil_x

    Anvil_x Well-Known Member

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    you're saying that like it's a problem. That's like a recap of my boat's strong suit, and I still manage to do decent with it. Puking dogs can still be fun, just remember to bring breath mints.
     
  19. wdodge0912

    wdodge0912 Well-Known Member

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    If I show up with a French and an Italian ship, what side would I be put on? Would it depend on which one is my main ship? What if they are both cruisers or a crusier and predreadnought?

    How well would running just a cruiser for a main ship at a Nats fair in battle? What about a predreadnought?

    With that, since predreads and cruisers are class 3 or under, would a secondary be allowed, and would it have to be under the class or units of the primary?

    If the secondary's country doesn't really matter, and say I brought a French predreadnought as my main to run allied, would I be allowed say a German secondary?

    I know going to a Nats might help answer some questions, but unless it arises, I would think it wouldnt get discussed. I do believe some of it is up to those in charge of running the Nats. I'm hoping next year to be able to make it, I should be able to have the time off, and have a main and secondary ready to go.

    Really if I didnt want to be flexible to be able to play on either side, thos would all be a non-issue, I'd have my Germans and call it a day.
     
  20. Renodemona

    Renodemona Well-Known Member

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    If you showed up with a French and Italian ship you'd be on whichever side needed another ship. Running a cruiser at nats is a good low-stress way to have a fun week of battling. You can have your main as class 3 or below and a secondary as class 3 and below. The only battle that matters for is campaign as in Fleet battle you battle the same ship in both sorties unless you sink. You could run a german secondary and a french primary but be prepared to put a big french flag on it or something to make it really obvious.
     
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