Shore battery

Discussion in 'Ship Plans' started by Nick Park, Sep 17, 2015.

  1. Nick Park

    Nick Park Member

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    Hi all!
    As a parrelel project to my ship building, I'd like to start building a shore battery, 144th for fast ships.
    Maybe the plans dont exist, but I would like a few ideas as to what size it should be and the sizes of the target to stop the guns etc.
    Any rules restrictions would be useful too.
     
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  2. SnipeHunter

    SnipeHunter Well-Known Member

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    Directly from the IRCWCC Rules on the website.

    J. SHORE BATTERIES
    1. Each forward base may have one shore battery.
    2. Shore batteries shall be located on the forward base in the center of the target.
    3. Each shore battery is allowed one cannon with a 75 round BB magazine.
    4. Each battery must have a knock down target which shall disable the cannon if it is hit by cannon fire.

    I've never seen a shore battery used in combat. A stationary 75 rnds during campaign really isnt that useful for much of anything. (which I think is unfortunate because it would be fun project to build and play with)

    The Campaign targets are either ~1" dowels that are 2-3 inch tall or ~2" diameter disks. While technically you could make the knockdown target whatever size you wanted I'd recommend something similar in size to a campaign target or expect people to whine about how "unfair" your 75 rnd cannon is... (also while not stated in the rules it would be good form to mount the target somewhere a ship could actually shoot it, mounting it a foot up in the air might bring down the wrath of a CD...)

    Personally I'm thinking something like a triple turret with unlimited ammo (does it really matter? for a shore battery?) would be a lot of fun and could actually do a decent job a commanding a small (~5' radius) of the pond. Powerful if you get too close but easy enough to ignore/avoid.
     
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  3. TorpCruiser

    TorpCruiser Active Member

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    Lazarus! Has anyone tried to make a shore battery/fort with "Disappearing Guns"?? Would be a fun addition.
     
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  4. pba

    pba Active Member

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    When I was doing big gun in ft wayne We had a shore battery at the entrance to each protected port. The ports were square 8foot with ballistic curtains to protect the men launching and retrieving boats. The port was a safe space from enemy fire. Each shore battery consisted of twin 1/4 inch guns that could rotate and depress. Think GUNS of NAVARONE. It was controlled by a 6 wire tether for rotate,depression and fire. It had 5 1 inch square target blocks along the front edge that sat on switches and when all five were knocked over it disabled the battery. It definitely acted as a deterent to ships sitting there waiting for convoy ship to leave harbor
     
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  5. Kotori87

    Kotori87 Well-Known Member

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    I used to deal with shore batteries on a semi-regular basis when I battled with WWCC. There were a few, a mix of twin 1/4" guns and triple 7/32" guns, required by club rules to protect a dock full of shore targets. Some had a target to shoot that would disable it, while others had penetrable windows and a bilge pump. One was even modeled on Fort Drum, although it was never completed. I don't think anybody figured out a good way to do disappearing guns. The only methods I can think of are unnecessarily complex and don't provide any real benefit. While shore batteries can be an interesting wrinkle in large campaign games, I wouldn't want one in a small battle for several reasons.
    1) a shore battery is only a threat to ships within about a 6- to 8-foot radius. Beyond that, accuracy and hitting power mean you'll effectively never hit or do damage. And since the shore battery can't move, other ships can simply sail away and not engage.
    2) a person operating a shore battery is a person who could be operating a ship. Losing one ship out of twenty at a campaign game isn't a big deal, but losing one ship out of six at a small event is a huge deal. I would much rather have that person operating a warship, or even a borrowed convoy ship.
    In combat, I was never deterred by a shore battery. I could easily find positions and angles that the shore battery couldn't damage me from, and I could return fire or engage other objectives nearby with impunity. If it was positioned in a vital location, it became a priority target to disable, and usually got taken down quickly. If it was out of the way, I avoided it unless I was chasing convoy ships nearby. When the battery was on my team, I did try to lure enemy warships nearby so I could double-team them. This was more out of consideration for the shore battery operator than any tactical considerations though, so he would have something interesting to do for a bit.

    If you have a choice between building a warship and a shore battery, build a warship. The only reason I can see to build a shore battery is to test out new cannon technology that you don't think is ready for installing in a warship. If you want to try out a new turret rotation mechanism, or barrel depression mechanism, for example. I also don't think the current Fast Gun rules handle shore batteries very well.
     
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  6. Xanthar

    Xanthar Admiral (Supporter)

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    Or build it just because you want to @TorpCruiser : )
    I like @SnipeHunter 's souped up idea and what @pba described sounds interesting.
    I'll just leave this here.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2022
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  7. TorpCruiser

    TorpCruiser Active Member

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    Disappearing Guns though obviously more complicated would look cool in action (its important!) and could be made so that the " disabling target blocks" are also only visible when the guns have appeared, SURPRISE! -I think shore batteries/forts could also be something a spectator could try their hands at...
    -I really like that Fort Drum idea too...
     
  8. Xanthar

    Xanthar Admiral (Supporter)

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    I needed a distraction and I love anything with cage masts so... I took a stab at it : P

    FortDrum.png

    PS. I started a new thread for this model here
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2022
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  9. TorpCruiser

    TorpCruiser Active Member

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    Last edited: Oct 24, 2022
  10. Justin Ragucci

    Justin Ragucci Well-Known Member

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    I am currently building a shore battery to IRCWCC rules for NATs 2023 since no one has ever built one for our club and they want to get rid of the rule but no one will get rid of the rule until one is built and it is either deemed pointless or possibly really cool and more might be built. The rules are very vague sadly so I will be building it to the best of my ability for the rules. Should be a fun time.
     
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  11. TorpCruiser

    TorpCruiser Active Member

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    I've never been fond of IRCWCC rules and have no intention of ever building a ship for it.

    J. SHORE BATTERIES

    1. Each forward base may have one shore battery.
    2. Shore batteries shall be located on the forward base in the center of the target.
    3. Each shore battery is allowed one cannon with a 75 round BB magazine.
    4. Each battery must have a knock down target which shall disable the cannon if it is hit by cannon fire.

    1 cannon and only 75bb's seems far too limited, I would imagine that real life shore batteries had a FAR greater storage of shells than any ship could. Typical of IRCWCC.

    Even with those limits, a shore battery is the ONLY thing I'd consider for IRCWCC.

    Other interesting ideas that could be adapted..

    Airsoft Sentry Turret - YouTube

    We Built a REAL AIRSOFT SENTRY TURRET - YouTube

    Many other DIY sentry turrets on YT.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2022
  12. Kotori87

    Kotori87 Well-Known Member

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    The IRCWCC shore battery rules are incredibly vague. For instance, where does the cannon go? Can it rotate? Depress? Can you reload? Where does the knock-down target have to be and how big does it have to be? Justin, I respect you for what you're doing. The only way to improve things is to try it and see. Good luck!

    TorpCruiser, what format do you play? I do both Big Gun and Fast Gun, and I'm currently stationed in Bangor. I'm going to the Expo fall swap meet this Saturday, if you'd like to meet up. http://www.expofallswap.com/
     
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  13. Justin Ragucci

    Justin Ragucci Well-Known Member

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    Thank you, they are super vague so I plan on doing my own thing within the rules but of course pushing the rules to the limit. Going to make a rotating cannon that can depress and that I will be able to reload (because nothing in the rules say I can’t) going to use probably 2 20oz bottles for them. The target will probably be a decent size and very very hard to hit.

    it’s going to be a great time. Sure it takes a boat off the water but honestly if I range it out correctly and get it working right it could be absolutely hilarious and people may want to change the rules.
     
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  14. TorpCruiser

    TorpCruiser Active Member

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    I haven't played any format, yet. I'd love to go to the swap on Sat, but supposed to be working, been working Sats for 2yrs now...
     
  15. Kotori87

    Kotori87 Well-Known Member

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    TBF I have battled many years in multiple formats, and I have found that Fast Gun has some serious flaws that folks who only battle the one format are completely blind to. But you've either gotta play the game that's in your area, or put in the effort to start your own club in your preferred format. Since I've played several formats as I move around the country, I think you can guess which option I recommend. Any model warship combat is better than none.
     
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  16. Kotori87

    Kotori87 Well-Known Member

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    OK now that's just not fair. IRCWCC's shore battery rules are part of their campaign rules, an event which only takes place once per year at Nationals and still somehow manages to have more rules proposals about it than any other section of the rulebook. As Justin pointed out, nobody has built a Fast Gun shore battery in all the years it has been in the rulebook, presumably because of how terrible the rule actually is. But there's also a significant portion of the voting membership who don't want to change anything in the rules without seeing it tested in combat first. It's a catch-22. No changes until somebody tests it, but nobody wants to test it because it's clearly terrible. Big thanks to Justin for actually doing something about it.
     
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  17. Justin Ragucci

    Justin Ragucci Well-Known Member

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    Again thank you,
    The other thing is how the vague the rules are. So I plan to exploit them to the max. Like for example reloading the gun when it runs out because it doesn’t say anywhere that I can’t. Making the target on it very very hard to hit and knock down. Also going to most likely make it rotate as well. I will sacrifice me driving a boat for even one campaign to see how it works and to see how performs. We will also see if the CD will let me exploit the rules (I am sure they will because it’s not written anywhere and it will probably be terrible) we will definitely see how it works out still working on design and functionality of the gun.
     
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  18. Xanthar

    Xanthar Admiral (Supporter)

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    I'd be happy to share what I'm working on for Fort Drum, if that helps.
     
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  19. TorpCruiser

    TorpCruiser Active Member

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    That’s the spirit! Make it auto-track & auto elevate/depress too! Maybe even have it able to detect target range and it won’t let you fire if they’re outside it (can’t waste ANY of those 75bbs, LOL!)
     
  20. Commodore

    Commodore Well-Known Member

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    Speaking for myself, I've thought about shore batteries a time or two, but it comes back to which would I rather do - spend hours and $$$ on a shore battery that doesn't move, and can be relatively easily avoided ... -or- spend my time and $$$ on a ship that I can put on the water and sail around and shoot at and sink the other ships.

    I know which I'd rather do.