Sinking

Discussion in 'IRCWCC' started by modelshipsahoy, Aug 31, 2018.

  1. modelshipsahoy

    modelshipsahoy Vendor

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2018
    Posts:
    205
    Location:
    Michigan
    Can the nose of the boat be filled with foam so when “sunk” the wreck still floats?

    Or... In the case of our Surcouf, just enough foam that the flooded model finds neutral buoyancy maybe 6” below the surface?
     
  2. warspiteIRC

    warspiteIRC Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2008
    Posts:
    703
    Location:
    Annapolis, MD
    According to our rules the ship must sink completely.
     
  3. Beaver

    Beaver #notatypist Admiral (Supporter)

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2013
    Posts:
    3,102
    Location:
    Central PA
    Just decks awash, Marty. My Suffren would only sink to the decks. There's video of it here somewhere.
     
  4. SnipeHunter

    SnipeHunter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2007
    Posts:
    1,242
    For a submarine specifically

    d. Submarines are not considered sunk when their decks are awash or when the boat is
    resting on the bottom. A submarine shall be declared sunk by its failure to surface at the
    end of a battle and return to port.

    The "return to port" bit is meaningless for an armed sub (it matters for a sub used as a convoy ship in campaign). {EDIT: well I guess for a fleet battle if you can surface at the end but are stuck in the middle of the lake and can't return to port maybe that counts but I'd just call 5 out of control and go retrieve it after the five like you would with any other ship which isnt a sink.}

    So if you can still surface by remote at the end of a sortie I'd say you're not sunk, if you're neutrally buoyant at 1ft depth but unable to surface then you'd be sunk.

    Sinking is part of the fun!
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2018
  5. modelshipsahoy

    modelshipsahoy Vendor

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2018
    Posts:
    205
    Location:
    Michigan
    I read that also, but I did read that a ship is considered sunk when decks awash so....

    The rules here are sometimes contradictory. I try to read intent and don’t go looking for cheater like loopholes.

    I also saw the sub rule about not being able to surface considered sunk. Main issue is no real way to have an automatic recovery float upon sink.

    Also seems really good idea for surface ships in deep/weedy ponds to NOT go 30’ to the bottom.
     
  6. NickMyers

    NickMyers Admin RCWC Staff

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2007
    Posts:
    4,183
    Location:
    Federal Way, WA
    It took me 30min to find my ship in 3ft of water at a battle last year. The bottom was a foot deep of vegetation, pretty much completely nestled in to the weeds.
     
    modelshipsahoy likes this.
  7. modelshipsahoy

    modelshipsahoy Vendor

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2018
    Posts:
    205
    Location:
    Michigan
    So why not add some interior foam floatation? It weighs nearly nothing and won’t delay the sinking from damage flooding.
     
  8. Beaver

    Beaver #notatypist Admiral (Supporter)

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2013
    Posts:
    3,102
    Location:
    Central PA
    No room maybe?
    amidships-inside.jpg
     
  9. modelshipsahoy

    modelshipsahoy Vendor

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2018
    Posts:
    205
    Location:
    Michigan
    I make pressure molds that can form intricate shapes to urethane with amazing details that can be placed tightly around gear. Seems like the bow is the place for it with the model swinging upright indicating undoubtedly sunk.
     
  10. Beaver

    Beaver #notatypist Admiral (Supporter)

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2013
    Posts:
    3,102
    Location:
    Central PA
    Well I'm not particularly interested in having my hull packed full of foam. There isn't any room as it is. I'm fine with it sinking. It looks cool! :cool:
     
    Anvil_x likes this.
  11. GregMcFadden

    GregMcFadden Facilitator RCWC Staff

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2006
    Posts:
    2,135
    the rules count you as sunk when you are decks awash, but another section requires ships to be able to fully sink.... they are not contradictory, as both conditions can be met in one build
     
  12. modelshipsahoy

    modelshipsahoy Vendor

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2018
    Posts:
    205
    Location:
    Michigan
    It does look cool, but Expensive special effect if model is lost. Has that happened? And specifically is integral floatation prohibited?

    Rules say:
    Model must be able to sink fully
    “Sinking” is defined as:
    Decks awash across both hull sides for ships
    Failure to surface for subs.
     
  13. NickMyers

    NickMyers Admin RCWC Staff

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2007
    Posts:
    4,183
    Location:
    Federal Way, WA
    We lost a Suffren last year. First ship we've lost in the about 20years that our local group has played. Its in the muck somewhere, couldnt find it when the pond was drained either.
     
  14. Beaver

    Beaver #notatypist Admiral (Supporter)

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2013
    Posts:
    3,102
    Location:
    Central PA
    This hobby is over 30 years old and we haven't lost enough ships to become paranoid about letting them sink.
     
  15. modelshipsahoy

    modelshipsahoy Vendor

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2018
    Posts:
    205
    Location:
    Michigan
    Off topic, but That Ships name just reminds me of 16 years married to my Ex. Lol
     
  16. GregMcFadden

    GregMcFadden Facilitator RCWC Staff

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2006
    Posts:
    2,135
    A.9 Watertight boxes may be used for the purpose of protecting electronic equipment. Such boxes shall not, due to their buoyancy, prevent the ship from sinking. For the purposes of this section only, “sinking” is defined to mean that the model completely submerges when its hull is flooded with water.
     
    modelshipsahoy likes this.
  17. GregMcFadden

    GregMcFadden Facilitator RCWC Staff

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2006
    Posts:
    2,135
    note that I do think that once you are decks awash, it should be good enough and that technically if you don't have any watertight boxes, you are good to go per that section
     
  18. modelshipsahoy

    modelshipsahoy Vendor

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2018
    Posts:
    205
    Location:
    Michigan
    Cool thanks Greg. Water is incredibly stable substance that gets exponentially more buoyant as depth increases linearly so not too hard to set up a Model to achieve neutral boyancy just below the surface. Just didn’t want to do the math on it for the Prinz Eugen which is the project at hand. Easier just to go overboard a bit and save the battery in the graphic calculator. Lol
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2018
  19. modelshipsahoy

    modelshipsahoy Vendor

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2018
    Posts:
    205
    Location:
    Michigan
    I read the intent of that rule to be that the boyancy of the sealed box should not prevent a decks awash, or hold the model up enough to fake a sunken run home to port.
     
  20. Beaver

    Beaver #notatypist Admiral (Supporter)

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2013
    Posts:
    3,102
    Location:
    Central PA
    If the decks completely submerge nobody is going to say anything, at least not around here. Idk about a nats though.
     
    modelshipsahoy likes this.