Smack Thread

Remember, it was the airforce that did in most German capital ships. The Allies (and the rest of us) were lucky that Hitler was a Lunitic as well as not having a good understanding of Naval units and tactics. If he had waited untill 1944 to start the war like his General and Admirals wanted him to, it would have been a different Battle of the Atlantic.

 

Yes it would. The IJN would have still tried their luck at Pearl Harbor in 1941 and gotten clobbered. The USN will have the fleet and manpower that was built to fight the Pacific war, and no Pacific targets to keep it occupied.

Task force 58 would have smoked anything the Germans could think about putting on the water by 1944, AND the US will be more experienced in fighting a land war...so less mistakes then historical in the beginning (the Japanese would have benefited from those...but they did anyway...) Z plan or no, there is no way Germany would be standing a chance.

The airforces did in most of the German capital ships because the wouldnt come out and play with the Allied navies

 

I don't know, do you think the IJN would have hit Pearl if the US wasn't looking at Europe so hard? They would have been stupid (and I mean stupid this time) to attack Pearl at that time because the whole of the US war machine would have been pointing at Japan with both barrels. The Japanese were arrogant, but they weren't stupid.

Mind you arrogance can get you in trouble too, remember how POW and Repulse met their end, by assuming the IJN air wing was inferior the ‘might of the Royal Navy’!!
J

 

I do think the Japanese would have tried it. Their only choices were to give up on their China ambitions or take the raw materials they needed in the DEI. They only had something like 18 months of oil when they hit Pearl. That situation wouldn't change regardless of what the Germans were doing in Europe. They needed the DEI and the Philippines were in the way.

Given everything I have read about the last days of the war, when the Japanese were beaten and knew it...they still weren't ready to back down until we dropped the bomb. I can't imagine them backing down in 1941 before they ever lost a battle either. They'd still think their massive strike would fall, and the US would not have the stomach to fight the war.

They'd have still been wrong.

 

What would task force 58 look like if there wasn't a war on? The fast BBs, new CVs as well as all the superior aircraft were developed because of and during the war. Now, the Germans wouldn't have had as many CVs but the BBs, BCs and CAs would have been a force to be wary of and feared. It would have been interresting to watch the Z plan ships against the Royal Navy as they didn't have as good a fleet air arm as the US.

It was like 5000 to 1, , the Germans weren't stupid either. Nary was there an sea battle in the Atlantic were the Allies didn't have a huge numbers advantage...just goes to show you who made the best ships and who had to count on numbers.
As far as the IJN and Pearl, you may very well be right, as I said arrogance can be a dangerous thing
J

 

There's no real way to say what the fleet would look like, but most of that fleet was laid down prior to Pearl Harbor. Both NC and Washington were in commission, and the SoDaks were fitting out, and the Iowas laid down. Several Essexes and Clevelands (Indpendence) class ships were also laid down. I think it looks about the same as historical come 1943.

 

"Nary was there an sea battle in the Atlantic were the Allies didn't have a huge numbers advantage...just goes to show you who made the best ships and who had to count on numbers"

Just because they applied some common sense, didnt mean their ships were better. Remember, the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau also had an old WW1 BC all by it's lonesome (Renown) and they hauled behind AND took more damage in doing so.

 

Once again, orders from lunatics,' do not engage enemy warships'. If you look at what it took to sink Scharnhorst, one little Renown was a minor inconvienience, like a gnat. An old, Kipper gnat!!!!
J

 

It wasn't Renown that was running away!

 

Oh I know that, again orders from a madman!!
I' m just saying that Renown wasn't any kind of real threat to the Ugly Sisters, just a type of insect!!!!!
J

 

That was before the orders to not engage capital ships went out.

 

Soooo, what you're saying, is, the Kreigsmarine was afraid of insects?

AAARRRGGHH Mein gott und Himmel! Ein BUG!

Hmmm.... Seems they may have had a point. Remember HMS Glowworm? And isn't the Spitfire a kind of caterpillar?

 

Yes they were Good point Darren

 

Axis favorite color is yellow. But that is to be expected.

 

All Axis ships carry RAID!!!!!

 

Too bad the can is empty!

 

Nope filled it yesterday

 

And just to clarify, we use the newer RAID that hangs around for a couple of weeks to take care of any of those pesky, persistent Allies.
J

 

the Axis remind me of charlie the Starkist Tuna. Sorry Charlie your fleet is not good enough for the Allies to beat on.

 

Hey everyone, just so you know, bb26 is running an Axis boat!!!!
I knew there are more Axis wanabees out there!!!!!!!
J