SMS Posen fastgun build

Discussion in 'Warship Builds' started by wdodge0912, May 31, 2018.

  1. wdodge0912

    wdodge0912 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2018
    Posts:
    537
    Location:
    Doesn't matter
    Hello Everybody!

    Just making a thread up for a build log for my 1st ship. It's the SMS Posen, a Nassau class ship. Reason I'm naming it after the Posen is because of the day it was commissioned, May 31st 1910. It was commissioned 81 years before i was born. I do believe there isn't anything different other than the name between the 4 ships of the class.

    Anyways, I've attached a picture of what I got, and a nice colorized photo I found of the ship.

    my first steps would be to add some fiberglass to beef up the ribs, as well as a layer around the whole thing to improve the hull itself. This was suggested by who I bought the boat from. I also want to get a driveshaft and rudders installed while that's all happening. I'm probably only going to put the one center one through the hull, and have the 2 for disks attached to the outside.

    something else I'm thinking about doing is to make the deck out of fiberglass. Since I'm having my dad help with the fiberglassing, I might want to take up his knowledge there. he's done a fair share of fiberglass work, so I know with his help I can get it done.

    One thing I want to see if it can be done is make something up that will hold the superstructure peices together in the correct spot, and be able to be separated from the deck. If have the rearmost part cover a power switch, if that's legal for fastgun. Id put magnets in the superstructure peices, then have magnets.

    I will fiberglass copy the turrets as well, so there is more room inside them them. I'm also thinking that I'll have them, the deck amd the turrets held on with some magnets.

    Im just going to use some PVC pipe for the turret barbettes, I found some spare 90 degree corners for some schedule 80 pipe that the OD is the same as the turrets I have now. those should last a while if I use them. otherwise I'm gonna have to buy some.

    I think once all of that stuff is done, it's the moneygrind for parts. I think I have a spare waterproof servo floating around, either a Traxxas 2075, or it's a Savox 0231MG. I'm hoping it's the Savox and will fit, as it's a tall servo. I'm planning on the multi B board, with a hobbywing ESC. For Batteries I'm going with the 15ah Lifepo4 cylinders, seems they are good batteries. I'm going to buy enough for 2 battles to start put with, and if I can squeeze 3 in, I'll run everything at that voltage, since everything will be able to handle it, and it'll give this ship some more torque for the drive motor. Guns and batteries look like they are going to be my biggest costs.

    posen_klaus_rainer_forst.jpg 20180531_094639.jpg
     
  2. Anvil_x

    Anvil_x Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2017
    Posts:
    1,545
    Location:
    Athens, GA
    The Magnets work pretty well holding the superstructure in place, I did that with mine. If I may suggest, consider having a pin or two sticking up that will slot into holes in the bottom of the superstructure components to keep it lined up. My boat's superstructure got knocked a little cockeyed by a ram last weekend, but it stayed on the boat. Pins would remedy that.

    PVC will work, but a lot of the super-experienced folks cautioned me away from it because it can crack when hit. ABS pipe is more durable according to them. That being said, I retained my PVC pipe barbettes (I lived in a part of Alaska where I could only get ABS in large special orders), and simply coated them in a layer of Balsa planks, then sanded them to round and coated them with epoxy. thick outer coating, with a soft inner layer to shield the PVC within.

    I suggest heeding the old timers whenever possible. If you can, try to get a bit of ABS pipe. If not, you can compensate. Though I have yet to take any BB strikes to my barbettes that I know of, so it is still an unproven technique.

    I'm a new guy, so take anything I do with a grain of salt. Looking forward to seeing your build progress, and don't let lack of progress or funds get you down!
     
  3. Kevin P.

    Kevin P. Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2015
    Posts:
    1,715
    Location:
    Chantilly, VA
    Adding 2 layers of mat to the ribs and deck rim is a good idea, I wouldn't recommend the whole bottom of the hull since that is better done while installing water channeling/shafts/motor mount. I use 1/4" balsa sheets for water channeling and put a layer of mat between balsa and hull, then another layer over the whole thing, if done correctly it can come out really nice.

    Can't really tell from pictures but you will want to verify the rib area is correct and the casements get cut out (they look to be solid now). I would recommend asking Mark Roe for help on that one

    Fiberglass deck probably doesn't meet the correct work/reward ratio on this build, they can be nice if done correctly but not worth it for first build on tiny boat. Use the deck piece there if it's good enough material, add a sub deck from 3/16 or 1/4 ply or strips of wood.

    Why do you want superstructure to be removable? This is a small boat that should be able to fit everywhere / no height restrictions. Having detachable parts just means more things that can get shot off during battle, or that float away when you recover the boat from a sink.

    On/off switch is another failure point. I recommend building the boat so it doesn't catch on fire and avoid the switch. Turn boat on by plugging in batteries before battle, KISS

    You're cost projections probably are incomplete, you might want to list out your assumed costs and let others fill in the blanks
     
    NickMyers and Anvil_x like this.
  4. wdodge0912

    wdodge0912 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2018
    Posts:
    537
    Location:
    Doesn't matter
    well the PVC i found were schedule 80 pieces, they are actually 90 degree corners for 1-1/2" pipe. it's quite thick compared to the schedule 40 stuff, which is the common stuff i do believe.

    with the superstructure, Pins would be a good idea. As for having it removable, it would be just to cover a power switch. The switch is just a general kill switch that I could flip before taking away from the pond, without having to open up the deck, nothing would be attached to it, so it would just come off and hit the switch. To take out batteries, I'd have to pull the deck, and I wouldn't want to do that until i got back to a work bench. The Super structure would be a separate piece on the deck. I could also have it cover up the loading holes for the guns. that way I only have to remove the deck when changing batteries and co2 bottles. as for it floating away, i could add some fishing line to it, and attach it to the deck that would be secured to the hull, so that way it could be a line used for retrieving the boat. not necessarily pulling it up, but to be able to locate the boat. I seen that it wasn't much of a problem at the GLAS pond, but i'd still want some kind of insurance that my boat would be found :p

    as for cost, I know there is a lot more I need than what I posted. I just mentioned the batteries and guns would be the big price purchases, as in spending a lot all at once. just off the top of my head, batteries, guns, esc, motor, prop shafts, props, gearing for the rudders, rudders (and possibly a servo) multi-b board, gun solenoids, balsa for sheeting and water channeling, bb's,
     
  5. djranier

    djranier Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Posts:
    1,756
    I agree with Kevin, no switch, they cause nothing but problems. Of course Rick K puts a switch in every boat he builds, and they work everytime, Don and I, no such luck. You can always mount a connector, and have a looped connector to just close the B+ side of the battery.
     
    Anvil_x likes this.
  6. Anvil_x

    Anvil_x Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2017
    Posts:
    1,545
    Location:
    Athens, GA
    That was the opinion of all of the guys at the club this weekend when they inspected my boat. My ESC came with a switch, and they told me flat out to replace it with a loop connector, or just remove it altogether and solder the wire.

    Your "SS as a recovery float" idea is what I did. works pretty decent so far, but is a headache to deal with when I am changing batteries. I'm going to fiddle with it this winter and get it to not be annoying.

    The thickness of the pvc is not necessarily the issue, the issue is the nature of the material itself. it does not handle sharp impacts well from what I hear. the balsa planking I used is to act as a shock absorbing layer. It's your call though.

    Have you seen Ming's Nassau in the "Stem to stern" section of the forum? if not, give it a gander, maybe get some ideas. I'm sure he'd be willing to give some advice.
     
  7. Kevin P.

    Kevin P. Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2015
    Posts:
    1,715
    Location:
    Chantilly, VA
    It is standard practice to turn on the boat at the bench before turning on the gas, to be sure that there won't be glitches when powering up. The sequence to turn stuff on is transmitter first, then boat, then gas. At the end of that battle the order should be reversed. Deck removal should be quick and easy for making any quick fixes during a battle.

    So what happens when your low profile boat gets shot in the superstructure that is attached with fishing line? It falls off and drags in the water, which can foul your props or everyone else's props, which is not good.

    Overall, when you get advice, it seems like you focus on trying to explain why your idea is better, rather than reevaluate the decision at hand. I recommend changing your approach. Most people would rather see you be succssful than think that you were able to figure everything out on your own
     
    Lou likes this.
  8. SteveT44

    SteveT44 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2009
    Posts:
    1,855
    Location:
    MD
    I like the ability of powering up at pond side because hauling a boat and Tx down to the pound with all guns powered up doesn't sit well with me. On my QE the forward superstructure piece pops off and the main battery connection is right there which works out well pond side. My Atlanta CL has a one piece removable deck which would be a pain to pull off pond side so I added an externally accessible power disconnect. I didn't use a switch (which would have issues with the water), but instead made the disconnect with an RCA connector and plug. An automotive blade type fuse or an XT60 connector with a loop in it would work well also. Check out my Atlanta build thread for pics of the RCA connector setup.
     
  9. wdodge0912

    wdodge0912 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2018
    Posts:
    537
    Location:
    Doesn't matter
    I could do a loop. that would still be able to fit under and also be some kind of disabling switch. Maybe rig something I to one of the super structure peices so when it sinks, it pulls the loop and shuts the boat off. not sure about that though.

    did you have anything that's attached to the super structure and boat, for when they are seperated?

    I could always impact test the pvc peices before using them. I already have plenty of spares I can use.
     
  10. wdodge0912

    wdodge0912 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2018
    Posts:
    537
    Location:
    Doesn't matter

    that's exactly how I feel. I'd rather turn it on pondside than up at the benches and walk it all the way down there. if I can have our so I can turn it on without having to then put the deck on, I'd prefer that
     
  11. SnipeHunter

    SnipeHunter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2007
    Posts:
    1,359
    Dont connect the power to your super structure, it isn't worth your boat going dead when the SS gets knocked, bumped, etc during battle. Having the boat be "on" underwater isn't an issue when waterproofed well, if you're worried setup the fail safe stuff on your Rx to turn everything off when it loses signal. Then again a pump motor running under has helped locate more than one sunken ship. Tradeoffs, everything's a tradeofff.

    There have been a few well done recovery float systems using a teathered SS so it's totally doable, just make the SS float if it comes off, that's normally pretty easy to recover, or keep it secured so it stays on during the sink, that isn't a big deal.

    PVC may stand up to YOUR guns, it doesn't have a good track record of standing up to THEIR guns. Could you make it work and pad it out something, sure, or just use ABS and forget about it.
     
  12. wdodge0912

    wdodge0912 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2018
    Posts:
    537
    Location:
    Doesn't matter
    I was thining more about the power disconnect loop, and it wouldn't work being attached to the ss. I think it would take more force to pull it than the ss would have when the ship sunk. would take more effort to figure it out than just not doing it.

    as for pvc abs, how would I tell the difference between them? I'll have to see if there is any I can grab. the only thing I was able.to find was that pvc is white and abs is black, but these peices I have are a dark grey.

    also what size should I use?
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2018
  13. SnipeHunter

    SnipeHunter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2007
    Posts:
    1,359
    I think that typically schedule 40 PVC is white, schedule 80 is grey and ABS is black. At least in the mass produced plumbing world.

    As for size use the size which has an OD which best matches the OD of the barbetts that support your turrets. Anything within probably 1/8" is close enough that nobody will notice/complain about it.
     
    Anvil_x likes this.
  14. SteveT44

    SteveT44 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2009
    Posts:
    1,855
    Location:
    MD
    This is your first boat. Don't worry to much about how bb proof your super is. Anything that breaks can be replaced. Think more about systems and making them as reliable as possible. You can battle without superstructure, but if you lose a system, your off the pond (or below it ;)).
     
    absolutek, NickMyers and Lou like this.
  15. Lou

    Lou It's just toy boats -->> C T D <<-- Admiral (Supporter)

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2008
    Posts:
    2,092
    Location:
    Smyrna, Georgia
    THIS^^^^
    I spent way to much time making my boat "pretty" and worrying about topside damage, rather than spending that time making the boat work. Sucks to hear "great looking boat, hopefully next season you can join a battle" - cause I have...
     
    Beaver and NickMyers like this.
  16. Anvil_x

    Anvil_x Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2017
    Posts:
    1,545
    Location:
    Athens, GA

    Yeah! the XT60 was exactly what I was going to use for mine. I'm now pleased that my idea is not as silly as I imagined.

    BTW Ditto Kevin on the detachable superstructure comment. I totally spaced on how low your boat will be. If you want to see how I did my Texas, here's the Link:

    https://rcwarshipcombat.com/threads/fast-gun-texas.445409/

    One big thing you'll notice in there is that all of my truly harebrained schemes were trimmed away. Most of the brain work on my boat came from the guys replying in your thread.
     
  17. Beaver

    Beaver 2020 Rookie of the Year Admiral (Supporter)

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2013
    Posts:
    3,674
    Location:
    Central PA
    As a battler, my advice may be totally worthless, but I think powering your boat up on the bench is the smarter choice. Why? Well you can easily test your drive and rudder systems for any possible issues when it's on the bench. But try holding your battleship in your one hand while running the radio in the other pondside, not to mention the guns are live while you're doing this and could go off.
    At a battle, my front deck stays off till right before I bring the boat to the pond. I plug the batteries in, double check my drive and rudder are working, then open the co2, close the deck and head for the water. It's that simple, all this talk of power plugs just sounds like another unnecessary thing that could fail.
     
    Anvil_x and thegeek like this.
  18. NickMyers

    NickMyers Admin RCWC Staff

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2007
    Posts:
    4,404
    Location:
    Federal Way, WA
    Be safe, skip the switches
    Switches
    Always
    F****
    Everything
     
  19. wdodge0912

    wdodge0912 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2018
    Posts:
    537
    Location:
    Doesn't matter
    well, Pay day will be here shorty. I'm going to buy the fiberglass, and probably the drive shaft and rudders. what length drive shaft should I use?

    I'm also going to get some wood so I can get the deck mounted to the ship. I might actually be able to get some for free, cut to the length and width that I'll need.

    I might also get the balsa and the stuff to sheet the ship, so I can get it floating. that's a maybe though on that. I would like to get that part done to feel accomplished, but I might hold out and wait until it's the final thing to do.

    someone said I should check the ribs, as well as the casements. can anyone help me there figure this out to make sure it's legal?
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2018
  20. wdodge0912

    wdodge0912 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2018
    Posts:
    537
    Location:
    Doesn't matter
    So attached is a list of everything I plan on ordering next paycheck, except for the prop shaft, which I need to figure out the length. I think with that, I would have everything to make it move and steer, once I get it floating of course.

    I'm thinking I still might get the balsa and silkpan and get it floating as well, and for now for testing purposes use one of my 2 channel system and 2 cell lipos to make sure everything spins fine and turns ok.

    I'll also be working on the fiberglass rib reinforcements here soon, I'll be getting that next paycheck as well.

    is there anything else I should add to this order to do up the driveline and steering?
     

    Attached Files: