So you want a Float

Discussion in 'Construction' started by Kotori87, Feb 20, 2021.

  1. Kotori87

    Kotori87 Well-Known Member

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    It's been an epic fight. BBs flew back and forth, balsa splintered, and every combatant's bilge pump sent a spray of water into the air. But the fight is over, and your ship has vanished into the depths. Not even a stream of bubbles remains to mark its watery grave. If only you'd equipped a float.
    IMG_5062.JPG
    (splish splash, time for a swim)
    An Emergency Float is a tethered device equipped to a combat ship that deploys upon sinking that assists in recovery of that ship. Floats generally fall under two categories. The first category is the Recovery Float. It is constructed with strong materials and is securely anchored to the ship, enabling the ship to be recovered purely by the float and tether. The second is the Marker Float. This category of float is only intended to assist a swimmer/wader in locating the wreck, but is not intended to support the full weight of a water-filled ship. In this article, we shall explore the requirements of each category of float, the mechanics of sinking, and several examples of both successful and unsuccessful designs.

    I. Requirements.
    An Emergency Float is a very important piece of hardware. It enables the recovery of your ship after a a catastrophic failure has occurred, and your pride and joy has sunk. Sinking is just about the most traumatic event that can occur to a model ship, and as such your float must be designed to deploy under a a wide variety of circumstances. On the other hand, your ship is also routinely experiencing another extremely traumatic event: naval gunfire in combat. Your float must also be designed to NOT deploy when subjected to gunfire, collisions, and other combat-related incidents. Some floats are able to deploy no matter how your ship sinks, but any stray bb can knock it off your ship and leave a giant hazard in the water just waiting to tangle somebody's props. Other floats can be impervious to enemy action, but only deploy if the ship sinks in a very specific way. Still other floats are both reliable and tough, but either do not fit on a ship, or stand out as grossly non-scale. The challenge is to balance all of these requirements to achieve the best possible combination of features for your particular need.
    IMG_9394.JPG
    (I bet I can find this boat pretty quick)

    II. Why Floats Fail.
    As mentioned earlier, sinking is a very traumatic experience. The ship is subjected to a wide variety of forces in rapid succession, and may respond in unexpected ways. A ship that rapidly capsizes may trap the float in its mount, preventing the float from deploying properly. The impact with the pond bottom may right the boat and free its float, or it may get stuck at an unusual angle, ensuring a failure to deploy. The forces of in-rushing water may temporarily trap the float, delaying its release until the ship is fully on the bottom of the pond and subject to weeds, mud, and other underwater hazards. Battle damage may trap the float, or cause it to lose buoyancy. The tether line may get tangled or caught, trapping the float mere inches from the stricken vessel. In one case, I even saw a ship deploy its float successfully only to have another ship get tangled in the line and sunk, dragging down the float and requiring an extended search for both vessels. Problems may happen before the ship sinks, too. During combat, a float may be hit repeatedly be enemy fire and knocked off its mount. The spray from a pump outlet could push a float loose. A collision with another ship, land, or even branches from a plant may knock the float ajar. The float's line may become brittle with age, or get broken by battle damage. All of these failures are not only possible, but have actually happened to ships I've battled.
    IMG_5071.JPG
    (Here be MONSTERS!)

    Below is a link to one of my favorite videos. Take a close look at all the sinking ships. There are many examples of good emergency floats, and a few examples of not-so-good emergency floats.

    View: https://youtu.be/wvugEmj3pO0


    IV. Examples.
    Well, that concludes the introduction and philosophy. From here on, I'll be showing pictures of floats I've seen, and discussing how well they worked and why. Please click on the thumbnails to see more detail. Enjoy!
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2021
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  2. Kotori87

    Kotori87 Well-Known Member

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    Example 1: Tashkent superstructure.
    20210218_202501.jpg 20210218_202431.jpg 20210218_202529.jpg
    Here we have very good example of a Marker Float. It is a very large chunk of the ship's superstructure, ensuring both good buoyancy and the mass to resist gunfire and collisions. The float itself is held in place with two pins, #6-32 screws sticking up through the deck. Also note the very loose 3/16" holes they fit in. That large amount of slop is required to ensure proper deployment during capsizes and collisions, which are a very real possibility in a destroyer. The float tether is coiled between the two pins, which is simple and easy but could potentially cause problems. If the ship sinks with an extreme upward or downward angle, the float may not be able to uncoil the tether from the pins. A better solution would be to coil the tether around something in the float itself, which is much more free to move as necessary once it has deployed.

    Example 2: Gascoigne superstructure.
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    This is an excellent example of a Recovery Float. Its only flaw is the very short length of its tether, but that is easily fixed. The float itself is very large and buoyant, easily able to support the mass of additional scale details in the future. You can clearly see two wooden pegs in the underside, intended to hold additional tether length. It attaches to the ship via a large eyelet on the aft structural brace. This is strong enough for recovery just by lifting the tether, and its aft attachment point ensures that the rudder and props are lifted out of the mud first, minimizing risk of damage to these systems. The superstructure itself is held in place by the flip-tabs for the deck. These provide sufficient anchoring that battle damage cannot dislodge the structure, but hold loosely enough to ensure reliable deployment in a sink. It is possible, however, that a collision could knock it off.

    Example 3: Z-boat torpedo launcher.
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    There isn't much difference, sometimes, between a Marker Float and a Recovery Float. This particular design is based on spindle-bobber designs which will be discussed later. It is very loosely mounted on the ship via a single peg, through a 3/16" diameter hole in the torpedo launcher. Components like this are normally quite fragile, but this launcher spins freely when hit, dissipating energy and preventing damage. The tether is wrapped around the float itself, ensuring reliable deployment of the line when the ship sinks. It is anchored to a major structural brace, making it strong enough to be a proper recovery float. The blue tape is actually in place to disable the float. This destroyer has a large amount of foam installed, carefully tuned so the ship will sink until just the last inch or two of its bow is exposed. Since the electronics are thoroughly waterproof, the ship just sails back to shore once sunk, and the float has been disabled so it isn't dragging a long tangle hazard around. Plus I'm lazy and don't want to re-coil the string every time...

    Example 4: Viribus Unitis Turret.
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    Here we have a creative use of an inactivated turret for a Recovery Float. Buoyancy comes from a solid mass of aircraft-grade plywood. A 1/4" thick plate of acrylic holds the turret in place, and the tether is mostly stored in the barbette. It is ultimately tied into the sub-deck at the forward cross-brace, making it easily strong enough to lift the entire ship. You can see the notch in the barbette where it goes. The thick line of the tether is quite difficult to get tangled in propellers, and is very easy to untangle should this unlikely event happen. Despite the mostly-exposed nature of this float, it has proven quite reliable, resisting both gunfire (note all the dents) and significant collisions to deploy successfully every single time. One unexpected benefit of having metal fake barrels is that the float stands up on-end, making it remarkably easy to spot from a distance, for a float of this size. The ship's forward mast was originally considered a potential tangle hazard, until experience showed that the float deployed before the ship took on any extreme angles. Various floats on the ship's boat deck were also considered, but dismissed due to the probability of getting tangled in the masts.

    Example 5: Shimakaze and Mogador Spindle-Bobber Floats.
    IMG_0438.JPG IMG_0439.JPG IMG_1573 (2).jpg
    This little gem of a Marker Float was once commonly found on the aft end of destroyers. It consists of a spindle-type fishing bobber held between four pins, with the tether wrapped around the float. It is VERY good at deploying, literally floating off as the ship sinks. It works at all angles up, down, and sideways. It was quite popular for several years in the WWCC, and was used on everything from battleships to destroyers and everything in between. The glaringly obvious problem with this design is that it is exposed to enemy gunfire. I have never seen one of these floats destroyed by gunfire, but they are occasionally knocked loose. Longer pins reduce the probability, but cannot truly eliminate the chances of an inadvertent deployment without getting very long. This design is what inspired example 3, the Z-boat's torpedo launcher float. The first example was used on a Shimakaze-class destroyer. Her captain avoided the issue of the float getting shot by being a very hard target to hit, and thus never had any problems with it. The other example is from a Mogador, which was not so lucky. The art of not getting shot very much proved very difficult for one of its later captains, who removed the float during a refit since it kept getting knocked off. Unfortunately for him, it sank in deep water at a lake near Los Angeles, where it remains to this day.

    Example 6: Mamiya and Mehoshi, the two Marus and their bow floats.
    IMG_2642 (2).JPG IMG_2238 (3).JPG IMG_2747 (2).JPG IMG_2274 (2).JPG
    Here we have another design of Recovery Float that is quite popular. A section of the bow deck is made buoyant, left loose, and then tethered to the remainder of the ship. Like the Spindle Bobber floats, this design was very popular in the WWCC for a while. Like the spindle bobber design, it was also quite reliable, since the air inside the wreck would try to escape, pushing on the float and helping it deploy. Note the block of foam in the Mehoshi Maru's bow. While this doesn't prevent sinking, it does ensure that the ship sinks stern-first every time, improving reliability by providing a predictable sink pattern. It is not suitable for all ships, however. Since you cannot seal that portion of the deck, the float is a potential ingress point for water, thus ships with particularly low freeboard, are prone to rocking, or which operate in high seas may prefer a different design. The only significant failure I saw was early in the Mehoshi Maru's life, when her captain put too much foam on the float so it didn't have the clearances to deploy under a wide variety of angles. A few minutes with a knife solved that problem very quickly. The Mehoshi Maru and Mamiya Maru are among the most often-sunk ships in the WWCC, and their floats have proven quite reliable. Eventually their captain found that the floats worked just fine without foam. These particular installations do have a possible weak point. The string's attachment point is reinforced by a wooden block that sticks up above the deck, exposed to fire. If somebody shoots a golden bb, it is possible to knock the float loose, as shown in the fourth photo. This resulted in a fair bit of excitement at the time, and will give us a good look at another float in a little bit.
    Example 7: HMS King George V's giant bow deck float.

    IMG_2723 (2).JPG IMG_7418.jpg IMG_7453.jpg
    HMS King George V was equipped with a very similar float to the Mehoshi Maru and Mamiya Maru in the previous example. The only real difference was size. KGV's float is the entire bow deck, all the way back to the forward turret, with a sizeable chunk of foam under it. In the last photo, you can see how the foam block was carefully shaped to ensure it could deploy under a variety of conditions. Like other floats of this type, it has a long, strong tether and is solidly anchored to the hull to allow recovery. This is another excellent example of a large, reliable float with a good performance record. In the second picture you can also see an example of a dummy turret on the FNS Normandie converted to a marker float, similar to Example 4.

    Example 8: HMS Warspite's Hidden Hatch Float.
    IMG_2675 (2).JPG IMG_2676 (2).JPG IMG_8958.JPG
    Feast your eyes upon the beauty of a highly-detailed model of HMS Warspite in her Jutland configuration. If you look closely at the first picture, you might see Cdr. Walwyn on the forward deck, looking for damage to report to his captain. If you look closely at the second picture, you might spot this ship's recovery float. It's a small hatch with a secondary rangefinder on top of it, just aft of the mainmast. This well-hidden marker float has a... slight issue. Notice the mast just forward of the float, with all of its yards and rigging spread out in a broad canopy. Now remember that this ship likes to sink stern-first, so that mast and its rigging angles backwards over the float. Now notice how the float is trapezoid-shaped, with the wider side facing towards the mast, making it easier to get snagged. As you can guess, it did not deploy the one time I saw this ship sink.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2021
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  3. Kotori87

    Kotori87 Well-Known Member

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    Example 9: Dutch Battlecruiser's Funnel Fishing Bobber Float.
    IMG_2245.JPG IMG_5047.JPG IMG_5051.JPG
    The Dutch Battlecruiser, bottom ship in the first photo, has a fishing bobber for a marker float, hidden in a hole just aft of its forward funnel. This float has the advantage of being compact, lightweight, and colorful. It has the disadvantage of being vulnerable to failures. The string was prone to tangling. The float would get trapped on the way down. The string would get wedged between the float and its hole, then swell with water and lock the bobber in place. The DBC didn't sink often, and its float didn't deploy often either. It did not have to be that way, though. Lets actually take a look at how it could have been better. First, a bow hatch float like examples 6 and 7 would be easy to incorporate. It's got a broad, open bow with no significant hardware, ideal for such a float. Second, a large superstructure like that can easily be made buoyant enough to be a whole-superstructure float like examples 1 and 2. Third, that large structure around the forward funnel could easily be made into a block float similar to examples 15 and 16. You'd have a nice hollow tower with plenty of space for a sturdy tether, and you could have just the top plate of the tower float off. It'd be nigh-impossible to damage with gunfire and have plenty of buoyancy.

    Example 10: Artemis's Slightly Better Funnel Fishing Bobber Float.
    IMG_2855 (2).JPG IMG_3543.JPG IMG_3544.JPG
    This transport sports a funnel fishing-bobber Float as well. It is slightly better than the DBC, however. First, the bobber is larger, so it has more buoyancy. Second, the funnel has smooth plastic sides that are much less likely to snag the bobber or its line. Third, it did routinely deploy in combat. It was not the most reliable float ever, but it certainly deployed often enough to support the idea that funnel fishing-bobber floats are a viable option, with a few tweaks. Its only true weakness was that it would not deploy until after the ship was well along its way on its final plunge, and thus it could get hung up in the cargo cranes or in pond weeds. My observations of this ship's sinking helped inspire my own later variation on the design, which we shall see shortly. But first...

    Example 11: Derfflinger's strange solution.
    IMG_3373.JPG IMG_3375.JPG
    If you look very closely, you might see the neon-yellow color of a spindle bobber tucked into this battlecruiser's forward funnel. It's a functional solution to the problem of finding a sunken ship, with one little exception. Take a good close look at what's above that funnel. Yes, click on the picture and look for the fine details. That's right, there's a giant web of scale rigging above and around the funnel, strung between the two masts. And it's not just one line either, there's a whole mess of them spread out to either side. While that rigging looks very pretty, it also will eagerly snatch that bobber as it tries to float up to the surface. While not guaranteed to cause a failure, this is a significant design flaw in this particular installation. This ship would probably be better off with a whole-superstructure float such as Examples 1 and 2.

    Example 12: Three-Island Tramps and the best Fishing-bobber funnel floats yet.
    IMG_4670.JPG IMG_4678.JPG IMG_4679.JPG IMG_4680.JPG IMG_4681.JPG
    The Three-Island Tramps were built to experiment with damage control. Part of the experiment was to see if I could improve the reliability of bobber-type floats. Four ships were built, each equipped with a bobber in the funnel. The bobber AND funnel were carefully selected for a tight fit. The funnel is a PVC union, with a thin ring in the middle that the bobber rests on. Furthermore, vents were cut around the base of the funnel to allow water in. As the ship sinks, water starts to pour into the funnel. This pushes the air up, which in turn pushes the bobber up, and ultimately popping it out the top, ensuring a successful deployment. The photo sequence you see here is the only known failure of these floats. Note the plentiful vents around the base of the funnel, and how the bobber easily floats up and out. Unfortunately in this case the ship's receiver antenna had been tightly strung between the two cranes to improve signal and provide some appearance of scale detail. It was just a bit too close to the funnel, and the bobber didn't have enough space to get out. This was promptly remedied and no other ships of the class had any issues.

    Example 13: Kitikami's Superstructure Float.
    IMG_1335.JPG IMG_1338.JPG IMG_1343.JPG IMG_1359.JPG
    We've already seen this type of float before with examples 1 and 2. This is just a good demonstration of how the float should deploy. Note how it quickly and easily detaches as water washes across the ship, and it remains on the surface as the rest of the ship disappears. Minimal chances for interference from mud, weeds, and the waves/suction as the ship sinks. Notice how much pond snot Kitikami picked up from the bottom. Although this particular float is a full Recovery Float, I chose to dive on the wreck for a photo opportunity. You can clearly see the two schraeder valve fill ports that hold the front end of the superstructure, and if you look carefully the pin that holds the aft end of the superstructure is also visible. In this case, the pin should have been a little longer, since the float was sometimes knocked loose if the top of the funnel got shot.

    Example 14: Dunkerque's several solutions.
    IMG_7451.jpg IMG_9317.JPG IMG_9747.JPG IMG_2086.JPG
    When Dunkerque was first built, she was equipped with a large spindle-type bobber in her funnel. The float line was wrapped between the funnel and mast. This was a fairly effective solution, since the ship usually settled on an even keel and the bobber had enough buoyancy to unwind the line very well. As you can see, its primary downside was how horrible it looked. After several years, it was re-equipped. The new float is the main rangefinder platform, with the entire forward superstructure as stowage for the float line. The float itself consists of the white-painted portions of the superstructure, with several 1/4" plywood guides underneath to keep it properly aligned. The float is heavy enough and high enough that ricochets, ramming, and long-range fire are unlikely to dislodge it, although it has happened.

    Example 15: The Tragedy of Bismark's Block Float
    IMG_2301 (2).JPG IMG_2323 (2).JPG IMG_2324 (2).JPG IMG_2326 (2).JPG
    Bismark has a very reliable marker float. It is a large block of high-density foam, just aft of the funnel. The float string is coiled in the superstructure level underneath, and the float itself is held in place by a pair of 1/4" tall guide rails, one on either side. It is very good at deploying when the ship sinks, but it does have a weakness. Since it is very exposed , and sits right in the middle of the ship where everyone likes to shoot, it can be hit by enemy fire. In this photo sequence, the Bismark ran over the Mamiya Maru's float line (example 6, above) and became firmly immobilized. Allied ships swarmed around, and quickly dislodged the Bismark's float. That may actually be an advantage though, since I suspect the Bismark only survived because the Allies were aiming for her float instead of her hull. In this case, I think this float could be improved by using a larger chunk of superstructure. If the float was expanded to include the rest of that aft deckhouse, it would be much harder to shoot off without impacting its ability to deploy when sunk.

    Example 16: Iowa's Better Block Float.
    DSC_0738.JPG IMG_9514.JPG IMG_9516.JPG IMG_9520.JPG IMG_1269.jpg
    Iowa has a similar float to Bismark, a small buoyant block of foam in the middle of the superstructure. The big difference between Bismark's and Iowa's floats is that Iowa's float is located between two other large structures that protect it from fire. You can see it just forward of the aft funnel, neatly sandwiched between the two larger sides. It is loose enough to deploy instantly, protected from enemy fire, and brightly visible to aid in recovery. I personally would prefer to see the side structures incorporated as part of the float rather than the armor for the float, but the success of this design speaks for itself. Note: this float will *not* deploy if it is taped down like in photo #5. I have no idea why he did this.

    Example 17: USS Atlanta's very FLOATY float.
    IMG_0266.JPG IMG_0269.JPG IMG_0275.JPG IMG_0304.JPG
    If your boat is light enough and your superstructure buoyant enough, you don't need to worry about sinking. Just point your bow back to shore and power up. USS Atlanta here has technically never been fully submerged, although she's been scored as sunk on many occasions. It's a tricky trade-off, though. Atlanta's large superstructure and generally light construction makes her very tippy. And I doubt this method would work for anything other than a destroyer or light cruiser.

    Example 18: Luigi Cadorna aft deckhouse float.
    IMG_8041.JPG
    Short and sweet. This ship's aft deckhouse was a balsa block that was cut to shape and then hollowed out slightly to make room for a float string. You can clearly see the holes in the deckhouse, and the pegs that hold it on the ship. This one was occasionally knocked off by gunfire, but only if hit at point-blank range at an unfortunate angle. Nowadays I would probably try to 3d-print this float, with a sturdy wall thickness and very light infill.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2021
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  4. Kotori87

    Kotori87 Well-Known Member

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    Example 19: Pocket Battleship's hidden hatch float.
    IMG_7684.jpg IMG_7685.jpg IMG_7687.jpg
    This pocket battleship has a very small float hidden inside one of its hatches. As you can see, it failed to deploy despite ideal conditions. It did pop up after the captain poked it a few times. The float is too small to have much buoyancy, and the string stowage is prone to tangling and snagging. I don't know which gremlin caused trouble this time, but it never got fixed. I guess it gets a ribbon for participation, though?
    Individual shots:
    IMG_7640.jpg
    Well that's interesting. It might work, if there wasn't rigging in the way.
    IMG_7656.jpg
    Sometimes after a sink there isn't enough time before the next battle to neatly re-coil your float line. This may not look pretty, but it does look quick. Might not un-coil properly, though.
    IMG_9493.JPG
    Better the float than the hull, I guess.
    IMG_9377.JPG
    I like this one. Shots like this would be impossible without a good float.
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    Well this one is a little bit non-scale. It's the night before the battle and you forgot to design a float. What can you throw together quickly that might actually deploy?

    V. Alternative Recovery Methods.
    In addition to researching and developing Emergency Float technology, I have also experimented with a number of alternative methods of ship recovery. Let me emphasize that much like alternative medicines, NONE OF THESE WORKED. Do not try them, they are not successful. I am mentioning them here and now so other people don't waste their time.
    First are the various active ship-recovery systems. These range from CO2-launched floats to CO2-inflated buoyancy bags that lift the ship from the depths to releasing a slow trickle of bubbles so you can locate the wreck via bubbles. All of these systems depended on the ship having electricity, CO2, and working radio control. None of these can be relied upon once a ship is sunk.
    Next up were chemical reaction systems. The basic idea is you mix alka-seltzer and water, and harness the gas bubbles it produces. Unfortunately it took excessive amounts of alka-seltzer to produce enough buoyancy to lift a destroyer, and it took a very long time for the reaction to occur. A stream of bubbles was achievable, but that either produced too small of a bubble trail to see, or lasted for insufficient time to effect a recovery. Either way, a well-placed splash or pump spray could activate the system early, requiring constant attention and replacement of seltzer tablets.
    Then I tried a simple electric noisemaker. I hooked up an electric buzzer to an automatic pump circuit, set to activate when water reached the superstructure of my cruiser. The idea was I could home in on the sound of the buzzer. Based on earlier experience swimming for lost boats, the noise of motors, servos, and pumps was a fantastic aid for locating lost wrecks. Unfortunately electric buzzers don't work underwater, so I wasn't able to hear anything until I brought my ship back to the surface.
    Finally I tried the Don't Get Sunk(tm) method. I built a ship without any sort of emergency float, and sailed into combat with the firm conviction of Not Getting Sunk(tm). This lasted right up until the first sortie, when other captains expressed their firm conviction that I should get sunk, and I changed my objective to Sink Closer To Shore(tm). This also did not work, and I ended up going for a swim.
    It is also worth mentioning that hand-held float/anchors that are thrown from shore towards a sinking ship are also a Bad Idea(tm). Not only do they not accurately indicate the location of the wreck, they add an unnecessary tangle hazard for any unwary propellers spinning nearby. Yes, I tried this too. No, it did not work. It did result in a funny story, though.

    VI. Closing Remarks.
    This article has explored the basic design considerations of Emergency Floats, but it has hardly been a comprehensive study. It only covered the designs and experience of a single club, on two similar ponds, with identical conditions. The Australians who battle in a 25-foot-deep reservoir have a very different style of float. My experience in other areas has been quite different. Significant differences in battle gameplay means that Fast Gun ships are generally better able to sail for shallow water when sinking, and generally shallow ponds combined with clear waters means that most Fast Gunners opt for no float at all. Regardless of what float design you choose, the most important factor for success is the ability to learn from failure. If your float fails, don't just hope it works better next time. Figure out why it failed, and improve your design so it doesn't happen again. And of course, test test test! The more often you sink, the better your float will be.
    Well, that's about all I've got for now. Good luck building your float, and happy sinking :D
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2021
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  5. rcengr

    rcengr Vendor

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    Nice write up, thanks for putting in the time to document all these methods.

    I need to rework the float on my Le Terrible. The float is the entire front superstructure which was held on with printed tabs. The tabs were very thin to keep the weight down and subsequently warped. So I was planning to go to a pin type release similar to the Tashkent that you showed. I like how the Tashkent line was wrapped around the pins, which is better than stowing it under deck like I did. Do you know if the line ever snagged on the threads of the bolts? It seems like you would want a smooth surface to get reliable uncoiling of the line.

    float.JPG
     
  6. Kotori87

    Kotori87 Well-Known Member

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    That superstructure looks ideal for the pin-type float. As mentioned in the Tashkent Float's description, wrapping the tether around pins above the ship's hull does work under most conditions, but can potentially be a problem if the ship sinks at an extreme angle like the Titanic or if it capsizes. The best option is to wrap the tether around pins in the superstructure. That was the most common solution used for this type of float in the WWCC, unfortunately I don't have any clear closeup photos of it. The idea is that the more freely the tether is able to move, the easier it is to release. The float itself has the most freedom to move around, and thus is best able to deploy the tether.
     
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  7. Nibbles1

    Nibbles1 Well-Known Member

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    Wow. These WWCC photos are awesome!
    [​IMG] This thing looks vaguely familiar...
    [​IMG] Also is the leftmost German Ship a Hipper class?
     
  8. Kotori87

    Kotori87 Well-Known Member

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    You wouldn't be able to take better photos of the Kitikami's float, would you? At the time, floats were not a priority topic to photograph, but now I'm really regretting it.
    Yes, I believe that's a Hipper class. Hard to be sure though, next to that H-39.
     
  9. Nibbles1

    Nibbles1 Well-Known Member

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    When I got Kitakami, the float was glued back on to the superstructure, so I made the back deck a float. It might not be the exact same Kitakami, but the construction is very similar.