Spectrum radios for aircraft only

HI guys I have a new person and haveing seen the spectrums and heard so much about them I was going to stear a new person to them for his boat. We went down to our local dealer /hobby shop and in talking with him ,he explained and showed us on the radio and on the box where they are tagged saying they are for aircraft only! He is a rc flyer and has been real helpful to our boat club and we have done a bit of bussiness with him, he is also going to sponsor our fall battle, so with all this in mind I dont think he would stear us wrong from the radios. He told us there has been some falk from some of the big airplane clubs about boat people useing the radios and that FCC had been told . I can not remember the exact words he said but he said that in a way we could get in trouble for useing a air craft radio clearly marked in a boat. And he would not feel comfortable selling us a radio that way.Now I heard just this weekend some thing a long the same lines. Has any body else heard this or come across this. I looked at another members radio and it is older but doesnt say aircraftr only, the new ones I saw have it clearly marked on them.
Buddy

 

He's giving you incorrect information. The radios are marketed as an aircraft radio but this is mainly because they are the group of people who use radios with that many channels. A quick look at the Spektrum website shows they offer 2 and 3 channel radios for ground use which are also 2.4 ghz. Furthermore, 2.4 ghz is also used for wireless phones, wireless internet and microwave ovens. Heck the TDCL (Tactical Common Datalink) that I helped install and train aboard an Army recon aircraft I used to fly worked on 2.4 ghz.

The regulations regarding frequency use are for V/UHF radios (72 and 75 mhz for our purposes), but 2.4 ghz is completely 100% unregulated as far as who can do what with it. It's use at your own risk. People can put any spektrum radio in a boat and there isn't anything the airplane guys can do about it.
Basically, if you use a 72 mhz radio in a boat, you can get in trouble. If they use a 75 mhz radio in a plane, they can get in trouble. 2.4 ghz is free for all.

 

Thanks for the info, I wasnt sure what to advise him. Maybe go back to a reg surface radio would be best?
Buddy

 

No reason to go back to a regular surface radio. 2.4 ghz is superior and legal. I wouldnt recommend anything other then 2.4 ghz.

 

There are a few potential risks with 2.4, but none of them are legal. 2.4 ghz doesn't go through water very well, so if you put your receiver in the bottom of your boat and wonder why you keep losing signal, now you know why. Some older models had issues where they would lose signal when a servo or something drew too much power, then needed to be manually reset to regain control. I have also heard that there is a fix for that problem, though.

Basically, don't use 2.4ghz if you've got a submarine. Other than that, you're fine.

 

Kotori is absolutely correct.
In the "olden days" (actually, currently), there were two worlds of RC radios (well, 3 if you add Ham).,
72mHz (air fequencies, or AIR for short here) and
75mHz (surface frequencies for boats, cars, tanks, bots, etc., GROUND for short here).
FCC regulations strictly prohibit using AIR (72mHz) radios for ground or GROUND (75mHz) for airplanes or helis.
Also remember, for the 72/75mHz radios, you have frequency channels (like "Channel 61" for GROUND or Channel "11" for AIR) and controll channels, which are the number of sticks, dials, switches, etc. that control a function like an ESC or servo.
Each "Band" )72 vs 75mHz) has a limited number of frequency channels, and most GROUND radios commonly available only came with 2-3 control channels, so sometimes a boater who wanted more, would opt for an AIR radio without having it legally converted to GROUND frequencies (it is illegal to just change out the crystal yourself).
Also, if they found thier club was approaching the maximum number of assigned ground frequencies (there are only about 30 available), some might pick up an easier to find AIR radio to avoid interference (ingoring or being ingorant of the illegality).
As mentioned earlier, 2.4gHz radios are under a different set of FCC regulations altogether - the FCC RC regs (Part 95) do not apply.at all to the 2.4gHz Spread Spectrum area (Part 15). Thus all of the old knowledge about FCC rules on RC has no application when it comes to the 900mHz, 2.4gHz and 5.8gHz spread spectrum radios.
Note: Several manufacturers actually thought that 2.4gHz was not permissible for RC until fairly recently, when they found out "unrestricted use" really means it is "unrestricted." (they seemed to feel that since RC was specifically allowed under Part 95, on Part 95 frequencies, that that was the only place you could do RC). Sigh. The reason I mention this is that there are some 900mHz systems out there (plantraco, for one), and more (Sombra) in testing. I have heard rumors of some 5.8gHz systems as well, but the chipsets are probably a bit immature for these as yet. But, keep in mind that the 900mHz and 5.8gHz systems, when they arrive on your radar, come under the same rules as the 2.4gHz, and are fine for GROUND or AIR uses like 2.4gHz.
Another point, modding your 75mHz radio is probably illegal, too, as the entire radio is certified as produced. For the 2.4gHz radios, the RF (Radio frequency) bit is usually certifed on its own, so anything upstream of it (the knobs, switches, etc. that you swap out at the encoder end) is usually fair game.
The big advantage to 2.4gHz of course is that you do not have to be locked into frequency crystals etc. The disadvantage of less water penetration has been mentioned. The power glitch issue can be resolved several ways, one being a large capacitor sold by Spectrum or Novak specifically for this. And, the fact that these have come WAY down in price makes it an easy choice for me - 2.4gHz. By the way, the Turborix (currently in battle testing) is a 6 channel 2.4gHZ computer programmable 2.4gHz system available for about $42 from China. A Google search will reveal several in depth threads on this radio. Do read well past the "no way I would trust my baby to such a cheap radio" type comments from skeptics that have never seen the radio in person.

Cheers,

Wreno

 

This from the Futaba website FAQ:

I would like to utilize Futaba's FASST system in my boat, are there any known issues when using 2.4GHz? Specifically, I recall reading that there were issues with "reflection" off the waters surface causing interference, is this true?

We are pleased to advise you that we have not come across any issues whatsoever during our extensive testing in the marine application. In fact two of our Team Futaba drivers, Mike Zaboroski and Jerry Dunlap, have recently won the Tunnel Hull National Championships using the Futaba FASST system.

 

I've heard that the official word from Spektrum is that they're not recommended for boats - something about the signal not reaching the receiver, and bouncing off the water. the guys at the local shop here in Burlington Ontario have contacted Spektrum and learned this firsthand. They recommend Futaba FASST. that's what i have. Now, there are guys in our club that use Spektrum w/o problems.

 

I've got the Futaba FASST and I absolutely love the radio. I've driven the ship out to far beyond where I'd ever battle her, and had no problems with it. Glitching is also less then with a standard radio. I recommend the Futaba highly.

 

As long as you are not using in a Sub, you should be okay! Mount the receiver high enough that the antenna is above the waterline and you should be ready to go. We, in the IRC, have been using for at least 3 years and the only problem I have heard is that if the receiver battery gets too low, the radio will lose its bonding. I have hear this but I have never seen it! My sailboat group also uses Spectrum with no problems yet.

Marty

 

I also have a Futaba FASST radio and swear by them and I have had zero problems.

 

That's great to hear about the futaba fasst radios. I pick up a transmitter and just have to buy the receiver. I plan on using it on my next boat.

 

I have a Futaba FAAST. Works Fine.
I have a Spektrum DSM2 series. Works fine.
I have a Hobby King 6 channel, which is another branding of the Flysky like the Turgborix (which works fine), but just got it in and it is untested by me. The Hobby King 4 channel was used by WWCC in their guest boat program at Maker Faire, reportedly fine.

Note: the Hobby King 6 channel is $33 from Hobby City (the programming cable is an additional $3-$5 depending on your OS - and you WILL want it), plus some relatively expensive shipping from Hong Kong (fuigure about $20 shipping), and is not for the newb or faint of heart, as it comes with no manual and without the programming software or drivers. You have to find and download both. BUT, if you are reasonebly savvy, and unafraid, can't beat the price (order multiples, of course, for spares - oh, and the RXs are about $15).

Cheers

 

Update on the HK 6s. Brought 4 to NABGO. Modded one, left the others stock. Set them up on the bench, left the laptop (used to program them) in the shipyard when I went to the pond. Oops, needed some servo reversing, but ran them as is - flawless. Programmed the servos correctly when I got back from the pond. Used 2 of those and a Turborix all week, no glitches, plenty of range. Not for the faint of heart - you get pretty much a bare box. You have to find the programming software and manual on the internet (not difficult), and do need to purchase the programming cable. So, not for the newb or faint of heart. For someone willing to invest the time and effort to download the programming software a,d figure it out - a VERY decent radio for an EXCEPTIONAL price. Bottom line, I spent under $200 with express 3 day shipping for 4 six-channel programmable radios. Color me a happy camper. You can pay less for shipping if you can be patient.

Note, there is now the Eurgle 8-9 channel radio for about $95 - but we are still experimenting with it.

Cheers,

 

Probems learned with spectrum DX6 radio parkflyer. I bought this radio after all the talk about them at the shw in Toledo from horizon hobbies an=bout 1 and 11/2 yeaars ago finally got ny cruise finished in time this last fall to battle in treaty and discovered range problems. Lost signal at about 30 feet or so. It is a bad feeling to go into battle and find that you keep loseing control after 30 feet.sunk 3 times due to no control! After talking with hobby shops and basically airplane guys that had same problem with them and junked them I am stuck with a radio wioth limited range and no answer back yet from horizon hobbies. Right now I would throw this thing in the lake! Paid 99 dollars for this thing.
Buddy

 

I have the same radio but I get more than 30 feet. Try re-orienting your antenna wires. They should lay out at an angle from each other. At Nats this year I went out of control due to radio loss, it was only for a few minutes I suppose due to it drifting back into range. As I have a Baden I don't wander too far from shore anyway. I got control back, lost it, got it back and I think that range was 70-80 feet. I just stayed within that limit and haven't had a problem. I was going to sell the 75mhz in the convoy ship but decided to keep it for long range reasons so that I can do what the other ship captains do and drive the convoy way way out while waiting out the 5 minute period.

Bottom line is you should get more than 30 foot with a park flyer. I think it is rated to 100 or 150 feet which of course is lowered when you put it in a water tight box and roll up the antennas.

Granted.. I plan to move to the newer DX6 with DSMX tech OR the Futaba FASST for my Bizmarck which will need long range.