Sub warfare?

I'l show you what I mean here are two you tub vids of what I have seen for making them submerge during combat or are they possibly using another method to make it submerge, or no submerging during combat? that is the queston. I ment asking with a cylinder such as these here you couldent make one sunk easley or at all possibley.


IRCWCC RULES
G. Pumps, 5. A submarine may have a pump provided that the pump can only be used to
pump water into and out of an enclosed ballast tank. The pump shall not be used for
damage control.
C. BATTLE, 7d. Submarines are not considered sunk when their decks are awash or when
the boat is resting on the bottom. A submarine shall be declared sunk by its failure
to surface at the end of a battle and return to port.
this is the queston Im trying to ask what was used to make it work correctley?

 

The model pictured is using an active buoyancy control to adjust model depth. If you wanted to build a combat model using this method, that clear pressure tube would have to fit within the confines of an outer scale hull that would be balsa skinned. The outer hull would also have to be water tight until someone put some holes into it. Once the outer hull is flooded, the model must then be heavy enough to sink entirely (even if you blow the ballast tanks). Such a combat model would be very difficult to build in 1:144 scale. A second way to submerge a model submarine is dynamically. This is a model that has just enough buoyancy to float until it starts moving forward. These models can have either fixed downward diving planes, meaning the model always dives when going forwards, or movable diving planes. In either case the model cannot submerge unless it's moving. A dynamic type of sub is more realistic for a combat model in that it's simpler with only one hull required.

 

ok, got it

 

I haven't ever seen a dynamic diving sub that works well (I've seen 3 attempts, all I400 type), they seem to have attitude control problems underwater. Dynamic divers also run into problems with the 1/2" minimum freeboard rule which is a bit much buoyancy to overcome with normal sized dive planes.

The one active diving sub I have seen (Frank Falango's) worked pretty well, stayed level underwater and had enough CO2 in a 16 gram cartridge to blow the tank maybe 6-8 times and fire the spurt gun once. He had pretty fine control over the level of water in the tank.

Normal combat scale is 1/144, which means the clear tube pictured above for a type IXC U Boat is twice as big in every dimension, and has 8 times the internal volume as one in the correct scale for most combat. It also comes in at 2.03 lbs maximum weight, with the 1 lb bonus to small ships. The largest German UBoat would be a XB, which comes in at 2.8 lbs. For a reference the two largest submarines, Surcouf is 4.55 lbs and I400 is 6.77 lbs max

 

Size, shape and configurations I had considerd German Type XXI U-Boat, French Submarine Cruiser Surcouf, and Japans I-400, I have hull line plans for the French and German Subs as well as a couple of American ones. I think most things come down to how well these things are desined.

 

An armed 2 pound operating submarine in 1/144 scale is a little more than just a design challenge, I'm not sure materials exist that are light enough and strong enough to handle the job. A CO2 system alone would eat up nearly half the available weight. Type XXI is 2.5 lbs max weight. Consider that almost nobody builds Destroyers less than about 4 lbs, and the extra stuff you have to cram in the smaller hull of a submarine.

 

Strike Models has bought nearly a dozen of my hull moulds and Battlers has one (Z30), so the only ones left are for the HMAS/HMS Albatross and I-400. It would be worthwhile to buy the materials for 3 I-400 hulls or for 1 Albatross and 2 I400s. The Albatross is a very nice bulged hull suitable for a Class 1 'gunboat/other' or a convoy ship.

 

The main issue is that the IRCWCC rules as written make subs completely useless for combat. A single BB hit below the waterline will sink a pumpless sub very quickly. The only way a sub would be somewhat viable is with different construction rules adn the ability to dive and resurface. I've posted my suggested construction rules a few times on this and the IRCWCC forum.

Making ballast tanks penetrable in a barely positively buoyant pressure hull, and having an upper free flooding hull that's fully penetrable using the usual formula would allow points to be scored on the upper hull and penetrable parts of the lower and make the sub survive a little longer, especially if able to static dive and resurface using CO2 like my I400 did.

Making only the ballast tanks and any free flooding sections of the pressure hull penetrable (mine had a few inches of penetrable hull at bow and stern, plus the amidships ballast tanks) allows the usual on and below waterline hit points but requires better aim. A sub with ballast tanks will still sink quickly if they are holed, but more skill will be required to sink it.

I can repost my proposed sub rules again if wanted.

 

I just called Ralph and he still has one set of I400 parts left: upper and lower hulls, hangar and conning tower. You can contact him at: ralphster30@hotmail.com

 

Bob, please don't post people's email addresses in public. That's just inviting spambots to attack. It's better to share that information via PM.

 

That's why places like Hotmail have spam filters.

 

Use the patented McSpuds method of wifely deflection: Take a handful of sawdust and sprinkle it gently over the newly acquired hull. Then when better-half asks you about it, tell her you've had it for ages and just decided now was a good time to start working on it!