Swampy Kongo Hull (MWCI)

Discussion in 'Construction' started by Renodemona, Mar 25, 2008.

  1. Renodemona

    Renodemona Well-Known Member

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    Hey guys,

    I have a question about the Kongo. As some of you know, the swampy kongo hull drops down to the main(maybe?) deck just foreward of the step-in to the first casemate, leaving the entire casemate deck as superstructure. I guess what I'm asking is does the casemate deck have to have windows put into it? I am a bit unsure about this, as I know my Fuso had to have them cut in and the two ships share almost identical dimensions on their casemate decks. Is there something I'm missing?
     
  2. djranier

    djranier Well-Known Member

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    If the deck sits back from the edge 1/2 inch you do not have to cut windows. Looking at a picture, it only looks like forward of the forward casemate does that rule apply.

    Also you get 1/8 inch around casemates not the 1/16. On your drawing how far up and down is the casemate. Since the deck, and subdeck is 3/8 in, and you come up 1/8 in, if the casemates are only 5/8 inch a BB could not fit thru the hole, so it would not be cut out.

    Looking at the picture, it does not look like it sits back 1/2 inch, but how tall is the casemate deck on the drawings?

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Tugboat

    Tugboat Facilitator RCWC Staff Admiral (Supporter)

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    When the top of the casement is level with the main deck (like in the picture), the top 3/8" of the casement is part of the deck/subdeck assembly. It's not legal to start the top of the casement below the deck/subdeck area just to gain free solid area.

    OTOH, the casement itself (the vertical cylinder that has the gun barrel coming out) is always legally solid. The rule about the 1/2" in only applies to the hull in between the gun mounts. [yes, the thicker areas on the cylinder above and below the gun count as part of the casement]
     
  4. Bob

    Bob Well-Known Member

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    As I recall Jeff, Kirishima has the casements as part of the open hull area. I think his is a wood hull.
     
  5. Renodemona

    Renodemona Well-Known Member

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    On the plans I have, the casemate deck is barely over 1/2" tall, however would the bottom of the casemate deck count as my stringer? Technically those little side windows-that-can't-be are part of the hull, and the "subdeck" would become a stringer that just happens to have superstructure pieces attached to it. Unfortunately there is a big armor bulge that will also need a stringer to sheet with any kind of scale accuracy. And since I can't have 2 stringers... ;) Am I boned?
     
  6. specialist

    specialist Active Member

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    For Kongo, you define the casemate deck as part of a "mutiple deck assembly" and make it 1/8".
    The main deck over where the casemate deck runs is then 1/4".

    You can also have a stringer for the bulge.

    It's legal. And has been done several times.

    There is a small part of the casemate area around the front casemate that can be made hard.
    But most of the casmate flats are required to be penterable.

    I would build the casemates into the hull, and make them come off.
    If you _had_ to make the casemates come off, you can put the 1/4" deck on the casemate level, and the deck above that could be 1/8".

    Either way you do it, it will be interesting building.
     
  7. Tugboat

    Tugboat Facilitator RCWC Staff Admiral (Supporter)

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    I'd need a pic of what you're intending to give a good opinion, Reno. I'd be wary of anything that could be seen as 'against the rules' like a double stringer. The rules are pretty clear on that, and while I'm not saying that anyone is rectal about rules at Nats... ;)

    **Edit/update: I re-read what Specialist said, and he's correct about the multiple deck assembly. 3/8" max for all decks, but you can legally do it, no problem.

    [Note for those who don't know me, I'm not one of those people. I'm happy at Nats if my ships runs 1/4 of the time, at least one gun fires, for half the battle, and my pump plays nice. All that is irrespective of other people's boats and the rules. But I have noticed that some people come with their legal briefs in hand, and I wouldn't want Brandon to get pooched.]
     
  8. djranier

    djranier Well-Known Member

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    Well since you come down 3/8 which is non-pentrable due to the sub deck behind it, and the 1/8 up allowed by the rules around the casemates, and 1/16 up from the small deck between the casemates, looking at the picture of the Kongo I attached, that equals 1/2 inch, so if your drawing shows 1/2 inch from top to bottom of the casemates, what part should you cut out. Nothing. All you are talking about is a small sliver of a opening of 1/16 inch between the casemate guns, which a BB cannot go thru anyways.

    You can see a deck edge in the picture that goes all the way to the stern deck, so that should not count as a stringer, since its a continuation of the stern deck around the side of the ship. The hull should actually have it build into it, but probrobly does not include it due to the small size of the deck. So you should still get the armour stringer, since the casemate deck should not count as a stringer.
     
  9. specialist

    specialist Active Member

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    Actualy the walkways outside the casemates are not decks, they overhang the side.

    If those were removed (as they were at a later refit) some of the flat areas between the casemates will be flush with the sides.

    The distance from the casemate "deck" to the main deck is typicaly 5/8".

    You get 3/8" for the sub deck or assemblys (you may split this). Plus you can have a single 1/8" stringer.

    So if the distance is 5/8" (or larger) then there is no way you can make it all hard.

    So in summary a Kongo _must_ have penterable areas between the casemates.
     
  10. Bob

    Bob Well-Known Member

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    "On ships which have casement mounted cannons, the cupolas may be constructed of impenetrable material. A 1/8" wide strip on each side of the cupola may also be made impenetrable. If the flat area between cupolas is inset more than 1/2" from the edge of the gunwale the entire casement (cupolas and all flat areas inset greater than 1/2") may be made impenetrable."

    You get the 1/8" next to the round cupola. Not at the bottom of the flat area between the cupolas. Inbetween some of the cupolas Kongo could have 1/4" sub deck, 1/8" bottom of casement deck & 1/8" stringer at bulge.
     
  11. crzyhawk

    crzyhawk Well-Known Member

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    When in doubt, cut it out.
     
  12. djranier

    djranier Well-Known Member

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    Yes I can see that since the little deck sticking out is actually a overhang, not a actual deck. So he would basically have a 3/16 cut, if he has a stringer at the bottom of the casemate level, and with no stringer, it will just be cut up to the 3/8" point below the deck, between the casemate guns, right?

    On my VU, it has a 1/8 step up under the casemate area, above the 5/8 inch forward, and aft resessed areas, then goes back 1/8 inch, before you get to the casemates themselves. So the casemates are only 1/2 tall. With the 3/8 down, and the 1/16 inch up, that only leaves 1/16 that could be cut out, but I did not bother since thats only about 1/3 the size of a BB. Is that right? What do you all think?

    I has Don measure it, and he did not think that anything had to be cut out either, due to the little step up at the bottom of the casemates.
     
  13. Gettysburg114th

    Gettysburg114th Well-Known Member

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    This is why I sold my Swampy Kongo hull. Nice hull for a scale build. Far to complex for combat. By the way, in the format I run in, the area you are talking about can now be hard due to the fact that it is above the "sinking deck."
    Bobo
     
  14. Renodemona

    Renodemona Well-Known Member

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    Well, it appears that I must put my woodworking skillz to the test and creat a casemate deck with some small vertically oriented windows. Not a big challenge given some wood, resin, epoxy, and patience. And man, I have a ton of resin! Thank you for the input everyone!
     
  15. specialist

    specialist Active Member

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    I had to find a photo of your VU before I could figure out what you were talking about. I assume that you have 1/8" wide stringer that you glue the blasa to? Or is it only 1/16"? If it is 1/8" you need a 1/8" slot cut into the flats between the casemates. (1/8" slots get hole in them) I would think that a 1/16" edge of fiberglass would get shot to peices, and the blasa would not stick too well.

    One way to think about it, is that in the vertical direction you can have more than 1/2" total thicknes of decks and stringer.



     
  16. djranier

    djranier Well-Known Member

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    A BB will not go thru a 1/8 hole, 1/8 is .125 inchs, a BB is .177, so why cut a 1/8 inch hole that a BB cannot fit thru? Just trying to understand the reasoning here is all.

    Here is a picture showing the step up to the casemates. And why I did not cut any holes. If it needs holes no problem, I just need to know why is all.

    From the top of the step up 1/16 to mount balsa on, with the 3/8 down, I only would have a 1/16 hole total in height.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. specialist

    specialist Active Member

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    The bb does not have to go though the hole for the dammage to count.

    The rules say:

    "A bb hole shall be defined as any damage which has a visible break in the hull."

    Also I have had plenty of bbs jam themself into a 1/8" gap.
    On my boat it was between an aromor stringer and subdeck.
    I never thought they would get there, but they did.
    Getting them back out is fun too.
     
  18. djranier

    djranier Well-Known Member

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    So you are saying even for 1/16 of a inch, I should cut a hole 1/16 of a inch high. A BB will not do anything.

    But I do see your point about the 1/8, I guess over time as the edges of the glass breaks down, BB can become lodged into the gap.

    Thanks for the input. [:)]