This Old Machine: Re-purposing an Engraver as a 3D Printer

Discussion in 'Digital Design and Fabrication' started by jch72, Jun 8, 2015.

  1. NickMyers

    NickMyers Admin RCWC Staff

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    I think thats a bit rougher of a lead than most use (for instance my O2 uses a m5 with a 0.8mm pitch. You should still be fine for layer heights though - .12 and .24ish mm layers are perfectly acceptable for quality on a toy boat for our needs. Your lack of fine control on Z though does mean you're going to have to work extra at making sure you've got your bed level and zero'd mechanically. I would see if I could make it work with what you've got though.
     
  2. jch72

    jch72 Active Member

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    So I guess a better question would be what is the minimum layer height that can be printed successfully?

    I can work backwards from there to see what I need to do. I really prefer to do the lead screw once and be done with it, plus SDP/SI is discontinuing some of the nuts and lead screws of the type I'm using so I'd rather do it soon. I did find 4 small steppers in my garage that may possibly work for extruder drives.
    I'm listing the specs here so I don't have to do a search again: Japan Servo Co. KP35FM2-044 Bipolar 1.8degree 24V 8ohm 0.5Amp 90 g*cm detent torque 700 g*cm holding torque 1.45inch mounting hole diagonal .866 mounting boss diameter .197 X .9 shaft Body: 1.375 square 1.05 long 0.32 lb
     
  3. NickMyers

    NickMyers Admin RCWC Staff

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    I've printed down to 0.1, but typically work around .2. I'm reasonably certain I could print thinner layers but don't see a need. Practical layer height is also a function of your hotend. Its a bit dodgier to try to lay down a .1 layer with a 0.6mm nozzle than it is with a 0.4mm. I've put together prints with 0.3mm layers as well. Visually at 2+ feet its all pretty much the same for a lot of parts.
     
  4. rcengr

    rcengr Vendor

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    400 steps per inch is the full step resolution of the stepper and screw. But most stepper drivers will have micro stepping, commonly 1/16, so in this case your steps per inch will be 6400. I wouldn't change your lead screw.
     
  5. jch72

    jch72 Active Member

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    Bad news for my pocket book, I got out the calipers and the screws are actually 7/16-8, an uncommon size that seems to cost 4-5X as much. I could replace all the lead screws with 10mm metric trapezoidal lead screws for about the same cost, not counting the nuts, but they won't fit through my lathe headstock so I would have to have somebody machine them. Maybe I can go smaller.
     
  6. jch72

    jch72 Active Member

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    First piles of junk ordered - smoothieboard, 24V 20A power supply, spi thermocouple card, MK2B hotbed and glass, Generic J head, 6 inch Crap tape, eSun grey ABS filament, LCD.
    Still need to sort out the lead screws.
     
  7. Tugboat

    Tugboat Facilitator RCWC Staff Admiral (Supporter)

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    I don't understand shelling out for the very nice Smoothieboard but then limiting yourself with a generic J-head? :) Why not an E3D?
     
  8. jch72

    jch72 Active Member

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    Because I will be building my own hot tip at some point. And the design is very similar, E3D vs the generic, except that the generic has active cooling provided with a fan and is 50% cheaper.
     
  9. Tugboat

    Tugboat Facilitator RCWC Staff Admiral (Supporter)

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    Now I'm really confused; the E3D has active cooling, and the J-head does not. There are some new all-metal J-head variants but they're basically the same as the E3D Lite hotend, which still has a PTFE liner.

    You are correct about the cost, it's pricey.
     
  10. jch72

    jch72 Active Member

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    I dunno then, I guess I will find out how well it works when I get it installed. Really I think the idea of getting a consistent plastic melt inside a tube without introducing rotational shear to the plastic with a screw probably only works part of the time anyways.
     
  11. NickMyers

    NickMyers Admin RCWC Staff

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    What sort of feedrate can you achieve on those leadscrews&steppers?
     
  12. jch72

    jch72 Active Member

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    0.5 inch lead. so 200 steps/sec = 12.7 mm / sec. Light motor loading would be 2000 steps/sec = 10 rev/sec = 600 rpm = 127 mm/sec. With acceleration control probably a lot more than that, maybe around 250 mm/sec. Guesswork until it is installed and running.
     
  13. Tugboat

    Tugboat Facilitator RCWC Staff Admiral (Supporter)

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    I would think that you've got plenty of feedrate with those numbers :) Most of my printing has been at 60mm/sec or less.
     
  14. jch72

    jch72 Active Member

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    What limits your printer to 60mm/s? Carriage movement or extrusion speed?
     
  15. Tugboat

    Tugboat Facilitator RCWC Staff Admiral (Supporter)

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    I have experimented with faster, but the GT2 timing belt has enough elongation under load that I can see artifact on the printed object. It looks kind of like ripples at corners in the print. They can be smoothed out in post-processing and certainly wouldn't be visible from 10 feet on a combat model, but still...

    I had considered doing all-leadscrews on my i3 variant, but I wasn't sure about getting similar artifact from leadscrew inertia. But since I plan to use a smoothieboard on the i3 variant, I can take the stepper voltage up which could mitigate the artifact (if it would happen at 12V with leadscrews...) with greater motor torque.

    I already bought into redesigning the Z and X axes because I decided to use real leadscrews and nuts (on the Z-axis) vice the threaded rod that most printers are using these days. Changing out the printed parts of the Y-axis is fairly trivial at this point. X-axis parts aren't done being redesigned yet, so that wouldn't be a new burden.

    I don't know what the maximum extrusion speed on the RRP hotend is, nor for the E3D that will be on the i3 variant. Time for some research :) I do know that delta printers with J-head extruders are capable of very high print speeds with 0.5mm nozzles. My E3D hotend currently has a 0.4mm nozzle for finer detail; I want to do a gearbox that is entirely printed, apart from shafting and a few M3 nuts and screws to lock the gears to the shafts.
     
  16. NickMyers

    NickMyers Admin RCWC Staff

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    I run 50-60mm/s on my O2 with the e3d 0.4
    I can run faster, but I'm not sure exactly how much faster. Too fast on smaller parts and you just end up with a big gooey mess.
     
  17. jch72

    jch72 Active Member

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    I understand about the gooey mess, plastic doesn't cool from above Tm to below Tg very fast. Insulating the nozzle and aiming a small fan at it from the top might help some, or might not be worth the trouble.
     
  18. NickMyers

    NickMyers Admin RCWC Staff

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    Generally you use a fan to cool PLA prints, but not ABS. ABS will firm up fairly quickly - in my experience a 10sec layer time is generally enough if your hotend doesnt radiate metric f*cktons of heat (very scientific number). Cooling ABS tends to lead to warping and delamination problems - problems I hoped to resolve by moving to pet-g, but since I can't reliably print that with my current hot end, I'll be trying HIPS next.
     
  19. jch72

    jch72 Active Member

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    Got the last order made today, 8mm diameter 8mm pitch replacement lead screws. Will give a 0.04 mm resolution on full steps. So the only thing I am lacking now as far as parts on order is the pusher contraption for the filament.
     
  20. Tugboat

    Tugboat Facilitator RCWC Staff Admiral (Supporter)

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    After scratching some drawings on scrap paper at work today, I'm ordering two more 8mm leadscrews with the fancy brass nuts for them, so that I can move the X and Y axes with leadscrews. My i3 is relatively experimental anyhow, and I can always retrofit it with belts.