Last week I enlisted in the Navy's nuclear program. I leave for Basic in late March. After that, I'll be in Charlston, SC, for two years attending A School, Nuclear Power School, and Nuclear Prototype School. That puts me on the wrong side of the country to attend WWCC (my home club) battles on a regular basis. Tugboat informed me that there are some fast gun clubs nearby that I could visit in my copious free time. With the end of the battle season and the start of the building season drawing near, I'm starting to look at potential projects. I've already got a couple big gun ships in mind, now I'm looking for a few fast gun possibilities to ponder for a couple weeks. My first thoughts are a ship along the lines of an I-boat or Bellerophon (I always liked the history of that ship). I've also heard of a number of people trying out pre-dreadnoughts. I don't have any particular Axis or Allied preference, though I've been part of the Axis team at the annual Campaign Game since 2006 (strangely enough, they haven't lost since I joined them). Thoughts on early dreadnoughts like Bellerophon, Nassau, and Viribus Unitis? One of my WWCC buddies made a Dreadnought plug that Strike is molding, and I've got plans left over from my Big Gun VU. They have the same units as the BCs, but are slower. How does this affect their battling? Thoughts on early battle cruisers like Invincible and Von Der Tann? Strike and BC have these hulls, which I have heard are very popular. Thoughts on predreadnoughts like Mikasa, Borodino, and Radetzky? My brother has CAD modeled hulls for Mikasa and Borodino. Thoughts on a pocket battleship, Emile Bertin, or other modern cruiser? Strike has a pocket battleship and I helped assemble a wooden Emile Bertin hull that has yet to be armed (gave it to another club member, but can get it back).
Congratulations on your big decision! I have no doubts that there will be times ahead when you will wonder what you were thinking (and probably think about choking me), but it will be a good thing in the long run. When they ask you what rate you want to be, tell them Electrician's Mate In your copious free time (ha!) you may freely avail yourself of my shop facilities which are roughly 2 hours from Charleston.And when they ask you if you want to volunteer for submarines... say YES! You won't see much more sunlight on a carrier than you will on a sub, and at least on the sub, you draw sub pay! And after you complete A-school, they back-date your sub pay to when you said yes like 6 months before, a nice perk. I like I-boats (for allies) and the VDT, they are hardy and have enough guns to be interesting. They are speed 26, which is plenty of speed on the Savannah battling pond with the islands and The Slot to battle in and around. Other good battlecruisers are Lion and Seydlitz, which are 4.5 units and speed 24 (Seydlitz would have to be from scratch, tho). Dreadnought would be interesting, but at 28 secs you would not be able to run from anyone (whether this is good or bad is a matter of opinion lol). Predreads are a hoot to drive, slow, but their main defense is low target area and maneuverability. In MWC they get 3 guns and a half-unit pump, and one of those guns can be a sidemount. Mike's Verite has the most battle time and is a lot of fun, I battled a Russian Evstafi before realizing that I need to modify it to be legal. I can say we both think they're great travel boats. Modern cruisers are nice because they have speed, and are decent travel boats, barring a few really long ones (Des Moines). The pre-1922 cruisers are a lot of fun, I've been driving a WWI Scharnhorst this year, and will drive the Edgar Quinet next year. Also great travel boats, with interesting armament options (some WWI cruisers can mount their guns in the casements). Also, in fast gun, we have single shot cannons (with 50-round magazines) and 'spurt guns' that carry a 10 or 15 shot magazine and dump them all in one shot (kind of a shotgun blast) which can only be used by ships in class 3 and below.
How do you plan on traveling? When I fly I have a hard case I can put a boat in to travel with, if you're going to do something like that find a case first and then find a boat that fits. I'm a big fan of the early BC's, I traveled with a VDT for three years flying with it to NATS 2 of those years. They are small and easy to get around. On the water they have a good amount of firepower. But if you don't like getting into the furball and mixing it up then it may not be fore you. Their speed isn't a huge issue as long as you don't get left out on the pond by yourself at the end of battle against the better part of the enemy fleet. I wouldn't go with a cruiser for fast gun since you're not really a rookie, unless you LOVE run&gun, atleast not as your primary warship. They are fun to battle but since you're already in the hobby and have building/combat experience you might enjoy something else a lot more. PreDreads, personally I don't see the draw, well except for campaign, but thats just me. Class 4 ships (I-Boat, VDT, etc) are only slightly larger but you can have two sidemounts and you're a little faster. But they are small and would fit well in a smaller case. I wouldn't recommend one for your main fast gun boat.
@Chris - drive Mike's Verite if he'll let you at the October battle... It's like a bathtub toy with 3 guns! The battlecruisers are almost 2 feet longer, which is not a trivial difference. PreDreads are slower but there is NO ONE who can turn inside a predread.
Im not saying they aren't good and they aren't fun to drive/battle, just that I wouldn't reccommend one if that was going to be your primary ship. 2 Feet? maybe on some of the 24sec BCs(which I also wouldn't reccommend in this situation but thats mostly personal preference) but not the 26sec BCs. VU was only 43' longer than Radetzky (~3.58" in scale) An I-boat is only ~10.67" longer in scale than a Verite, and a VDT is shorter than an I-Boat.
I didn't think you were questioning their fun factor, I saw that you said you didn't see the appeal, and as a predread fan, I was encouraging you to try one to see the appeal No hostile intent was perceived My Evstafi is 31 inches long, Mike's Verite is about 36. Lion is 58 and Seydlitz is 54. Admittedly Invincible is a hair under 4 feet long, but that's still 17 inches longer than Effie
Its not the length its how you use it! Evstafi? is that what the kids are calling it these days?? We should get back on topic helping convert Gascan to fastgun ....
The predreadnoughts Mikasa and Borodino measure in at 36in and 33in respectively. That's a good 1 foot difference. It is unfortunate that many clubs do not allow a single ship from the only decisive fleet battle of the battleship era (Tsushima Strait), even though many of the survivors served well into our historic period and some are even around today. I just asked polulu.com for a quote on laser-cut Big Gun cannons for a predreadnought. If gascan wants them, he gets them. If not, I'll put them to good use.
I wholeheartedly agree. If more groups would go back to say 1900, a plethora of interesting new options would become available.
I can't speak for everyone in the SE US, but if you show up to a Region 3 MWC battle with a Mikasa, it'll be allowed on the water, I'm confident of it. Might not fly at Nats, but we'd be happy to have another ship on the water
The Verite will be at the Oakboro battle and I would be happy to let you run it. It is a fun little ship that out turns everything except Tim Ks little Kilkus. I was stationed at Charleston for a couple years. Love the area! I would go back if I found a job there. Heh. You are 2 hours from the Savanna battle site, about 2 hrs 35 minutes from Statesboro if you want to attend one of Clark's build sessions. Oakburo can't be more than 5 hours from Charleston.
I forgot to post it, but Don Cole has a Australian Radetzky hull he wants to sell. Its the same as the one that Frank built for himself, and for me, pics are here in the build section. He wants $50+ shipping for it.
It sounds like Bellerophon will be similar to Invincible, except slower. I guess I'll hold off until I have time and space for the 1786 version which I prefer anyway. Still, both ships will be much faster than I'm used to at 40kts and 43kts on the big gun chart. How does Viribus Unitis compare with it's triple turrets? What is the usual gun layout for a predreadnought? Will my 3.5-oz CO2 bottle provide enough gas for a vessel of this size?
"Still, both ships will be much faster than I'm used to at 40kts and 43kts on the big gun chart." What ships did this kind of speed????
I use a 3.5 in the baden and have yet to run out of air. I usually have about 25 shots left after I empty all magazines. A good fill is very important for a 3.5 oz. I had 2 bottles go bad in some manner and would only hold 2 oz of liquid. I might convert to 7 oz in the future so that I can tweak without having to take the bottle out, then I can just load and go. I am frequently late to battle as I have to completely dissasemble the ship to change the bottle.
The dreadnoughts and battle cruisers I have been looking at so far are in the 28-26 second range. According to the big gun speed chart, 26 seconds is 43 knots, while 28 seconds is 40 knots. This is the speed difference between the two different styles of combat. I will need more powerful motor/battery/prop combinations than what I am used to. I'll keep that in mind. I've got a 3.5oz and 4oz bottle already, but I've heard of some 5oz bottles that should provide a cushion of extra air, which would help me feel more comfortable. I'll have to see what I can fit once I select my next boat. So, how about the Viribus Unitis and Nassau? I'll add one more to the list: how does the South Carolina perform in combat?
Of that group, I like Westfalen. First, because it is a glorious Axis battlewagon (ACHTUNG!!), secondly because it has 3 shafts (which means for fast gun, power only the center shaft for better turning) and 2 rudders (also better turning). The SC is a cool ship, Tim Krakowski has one that he's in the middle of overhauling. It had been shelved for a while, but with me running WWI ships (lil Scharnie and soon Jean Fromage (Ed Quinet class)) and Mike M bringing his glorious little Verite out to play, Tim got excited about having other piggy boats to play with. On other lakes, the slow speed might be a disadvantage, mitigated by superior turning ability, but at the Pooler pond we have islands to maneuver around, and 'The Slot' to battle in, which make the short boats a lot of fun. Even on an open lake, as long as you don't chase people nor get cut out by the enemy all by your lonesome, they're okay The VU is between the Westie and the SC. 2 rudders and 4 driveshafts (meaning power the inner 2). So I'd go with the Westie. Achtung!!
Ah.... "The dreadnoughts and battle cruisers I have been looking at so far are in the 28-26 second range. According to the big gun speed chart, 26 seconds is 43 knots, while 28 seconds is 40 knots. This is the speed difference between the two different styles of combat. I will need more powerful motor/battery/prop combinations than what I am used to. " Be advised that the fast guns ship are set up for Movie speed: The speed at which models are filmed to produce the same wave characteristics as the real ship, the film is then run at 1/3 speed to produce the appearance of ponderous ships pounding through the waves.
