Treaty Carriers

Discussion in 'North Atlantic Treaty Combat Fleet' started by Bob Pottle, Sep 16, 2008.

  1. slow_and_ugly

    slow_and_ugly Active Member

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    Visit this site
    Maybe this will help alittle
     
  2. Chris Easterbrook

    Chris Easterbrook Well-Known Member

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    Bob John used to have two small Jap carrier hulls. I do not know if he still has them but he might.
     
  3. slow_and_ugly

    slow_and_ugly Active Member

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    Visit this site
     
  4. Bob Pottle

    Bob Pottle Well-Known Member

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    Thanks guys,
    The photo of the Argus model was very helpful Rob, as were the plans you sent me. The Argus hull would be far easier to make than the Victorious/Illustrious/Formidable. The lines do look like the post WWII refit, with extended flight deck fore and aft and reduction of the prominent 'round-down' of the flight deck at the bow. Victorious had what appear to be identical mods in 1947.

    John was by today and told me he bought one of Eric's 2 Mogami hulls, built the model and sold it. I'll call Eric re the second hull. I'd rather have a fast CL, even if it's Axis!

    Bob
     
  5. slow_and_ugly

    slow_and_ugly Active Member

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    Visit this site
     
  6. slow_and_ugly

    slow_and_ugly Active Member

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    Visit this site
     
  7. bb26

    bb26 Well-Known Member

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    I am not sure if this helps Bob.

    http://www.the-blueprints.com/index.php?blueprints/ships/carriers-uk/4036/view/hms_argus/
     
  8. Bob Pottle

    Bob Pottle Well-Known Member

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    I have that one Paul. It's an enlargement of the WWI confguration drawing in Janes - quite different from the WWII appearance and no bulges.

    Bob
     
  9. Bob Pottle

    Bob Pottle Well-Known Member

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    I heard from Eric Broderick this morning and should soon have his Mogami hull, one of two he laid up from Ralph Coles' mold a few years ago. Rob Clarke has the book on Japanese cruisers of WWII but says there's not much of a drawing for the Ibuki.

    I saw a nice kit-bashed model of the Ibuki somewhere on-line, so if I can find it again and use the few available photos and sketches there should be enough info to draw a deck and superstructure plan.

    This makes my Graf Spee hull surplus - I need only one Axis heavy cruiser/CVL so the GS is for sale to anyone in NABS or the NATCF.

    The Ibuki should be a much faster build than a Mogami Class CA. It'll have the same firepower but a 6 sec slower speed.

    Bob

    Bob
     
  10. Bob Pottle

    Bob Pottle Well-Known Member

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    I've downloaded two plans for the carrier Ibuki that are quite different in armament layout, shape and locations of the elevators, but have matching 'island' designs, flight deck shapes (except for the 'fins' at the rear) and similar hulls. I also found Allan Parry's 1/700 scratchbuilt Ibuki, which differs slightly from one of the above.

    Seems that the ship was only about 80% complete so there's specualtion about exactly what it would have looked like. I have enough info now to built the model. Construction will start soon and the thread will be continued under Warship Builds.

    Bob
     
  11. slow_and_ugly

    slow_and_ugly Active Member

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    Hi Bob,
    I have forwarded you the sections and Top and Side views from JCOPW.

    I am looking at the Victorious, but not seriously
     
  12. Bob Pottle

    Bob Pottle Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Rob!
    Great sections - I can duplicate the extra bulge added to the Mogami's using those details. The sections showing the superstructure shape above the original cruiser hull are very useful. Can you send a side view of Mogami showing where those hull sections were located? With that info I can mold a separate superstructure and glass it to the hull.

    Bob
     
  13. crzyhawk

    crzyhawk Well-Known Member

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    I'm looking forward to seeing the Ibuki on the water. She'd be a fitting opponent for my CVL Belleau Wood should I manage to make it up there for one of your guys' events.
     
  14. crzyhawk

    crzyhawk Well-Known Member

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    For those interested in Carriers, Bob Amend started a discussion on carrier scenarios on the treaty email list, if you are interested in checking it out. I'm getting ready to post an idea Mike Deskin and I have been discussing regarding this.
     
  15. slow_and_ugly

    slow_and_ugly Active Member

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    Hi Bob,
    I've just sent you what there is for sections and profile for the Mogami class.
     
  16. Bob Pottle

    Bob Pottle Well-Known Member

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    Rob,
    Data received, many thanks! Now I need to get that Mogami hull from Eric.

    Bob
     
  17. Bob Pottle

    Bob Pottle Well-Known Member

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    By this time tomorrow I'll have bought a Mogami hull from Eric Broderick and will start it's conversion to IJN light carrier Ibuki ASAP.

    We had another discussion about Treaty rules. Eric said he'll probably reactivate SMS Posen and try out the new rules in 2009.

    Bob
     
  18. froggyfrenchman

    froggyfrenchman Well-Known Member

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    I saw that somebody posted something about a carrier using two units in pumps being almost impossible to sink.
    Keep in mind that the carriers built on battleship hulls will not need more than a one unit pump. As it will be pumping 1.25 gpm.
    Same might be said for those built on battlecruiser hulls, as they will pump 1 gpm.
    Those built as carriers might be tempted to utilize more than one unit in pumping capacity, but keep in mind that multiple pumps cost pumping capacity and can easily become counter-productive.
    So although a carrier built on a battleship hull that utilizes two units in pumping capacity will pump only 2 gpm, it might very well prove hard to sink, those built on battlecruiser hulls will only pump 1.5 gpm when utilizing 2 units for pumping capacity.
    One might be better off utilizing the one unit pump, in order to retain the extra ammo for defense, and counting on their teammates.
    Mikey
     
  19. Bob Pottle

    Bob Pottle Well-Known Member

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    The CVL Ibuki has limited combat unit options. It gets 3 units as a CVL converted from a cruiser but can't use the 3 unit cruisers' rule to count the 0.75 gpm pump as a half unit and add 1/2 unit to a cannon to get an extra 25 BBs.

    That leaves it with 2 x 1.0 unit BB cannons. The Ibuki has dual rudders and should turn tighter than a Mogami Class cruiser because it's 6 secs. slower (29 sec./100'). That means the best place for the BB cannons is at the stern. The quarterdeck is lower than Mogami's, sloping downward to the stern and giving a better down angle for the guns.

    Bob
     
  20. the frog

    the frog Member

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    Bob a half unit pump for a cruiser is .75 I see no reason why your converted cruiser/carrier cant use a .75 pump and 2.5 units in guns