Using aft secondary battery (rule E-9-f)

Discussion in 'IRCWCC' started by George Reborn, Apr 17, 2020.

  1. George Reborn

    George Reborn New Member

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    Greetings, everyone.

    Am a newbie to RC warship combat and a member of Southeast Attack Squadron (SAS), a Fast Gun club. Have a question regarding paragraph E-9-f on page 13 of the IRCWCC rules (04/2002 version, edited 01/01/2019), which reads as follows...

    "Ships in Class 4 and above which had their actual main armament all located forward of their superstructures may use an aft secondary battery to mount a single stern cannon."

    Here's the questions...
    • Provided it's technically feasible and allowed by/under other rules, can a stern mounted cannon under E-9-f be used to cover any quadrant other than stern?

    THX.
     
  2. bsgkid117

    bsgkid117 Well-Known Member

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    "may use an aft secondary battery to mount a single stern cannon"

    The use of two different adjectives denotes a difference in meaning.

    "May use an aft secondary battery to mount a single cannon." Open to interpretation. Means you can put the cannon in an aft located secondary turret aimed at any quadrant.

    "May use an aft secondary battery to mount a single stern cannon" Not open to interpretation. Cannon located in aft secondary turret aimed at stern quadrant.

    Others do not interpret this rule this way. Ultimately it is the CD's call at the event you are battling at. Generally speaking, the ships that benefit from this rule are not regarded as being the most competitive so almost no one would care.
     
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  3. rcaircraftnut

    rcaircraftnut Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like a rule that had to be made after a ship was built. Lol.
     
  4. George Reborn

    George Reborn New Member

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    THX for your answers.

    Yes, am looking at building a Dunkirque. Have heard it's not a particularly competitive ship. But I like tilting at windmills.

    Regarding the comment about "stern cannon" not being open to interpretation, am not so sure. I mean, the rules talk about side mounts, but those cannon can be located in any of the primary armament turrets of a class 4 and above ship (see rule E-10-a). Since it is possible for a primary armament turret located rear of superstructure to cover a side quadrant, is it also not possible for an aft cannon, as defined in E-9-f, to cover a side quadrant? Just saying.

    I agree that the CD should make the final decision regarding such questions.
     
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  5. bsgkid117

    bsgkid117 Well-Known Member

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    Positional words in the english language are prepositions. To determine exactly what the rule means, identify the preposition and the noun. The preposition modifies the noun

    may use an aft (preposition) secondary battery (noun) to mount a single stern (preposition) cannon (noun)

    Do what you want, it's up to the CD to decide or the Executive board to come up with a clarification to the rule if there is debate. I doubt that either would happen because almost no one runs boats that utilize rule E9f and even fewer are regular battle attendees who have competitive boats.
     
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  6. Kotori87

    Kotori87 Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't be so concerned about the cannon layout, so much as the size of the Dunkerque. She's a big heavy boat, and that means a lot of work to carry her from bench to pond and back. It's even worse when it's severely shot up and half-full of water. If you're fine with that, I would gladly swap broadsides with you, whatever arrangement you choose. SAS is not a very competitive group in general, we're much more about having fun and trying things out. They even let me run my Big Gun destroyer for several years until I could get a proper Fast Gun ship built. That said, more formal events like Regionals and Nationals may not be as accepting. I have only ever seen that rule used to cover the stern quadrant, and the repeated use of the words "stern" and "aft" makes the intent fairly clear.
     
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  7. George Reborn

    George Reborn New Member

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    Kotori87, you are the 3rd person to mention to me the disadvantages of the Dunkirque.

    I can appreciate that Dunkirque's unique primary armament arrangement is probably not best taken advantage of in a Fast Gun format. But, in Big Gun (where, as I understand it, every primary armament barrel can be "active"), one is inclined to think a salvo a single turret with 4 barrels (separated from one another by less than 1/2 an inch) would be quite effective.

    Also, whether one is aiming by rotating turrets or aiming by turning the ship, intuition would suggest it is easier to concentrate fire from 2 forwards turrets located close to one another than to do the same using forward and rear turrets.

    But, what the hell do I know! Still a noob, and experience always trumps intuition.

    PS: THX for the heads up regarding water weight of damaged ships. Have health issues, so have to think about that kind of thing.
     
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  8. rcaircraftnut

    rcaircraftnut Well-Known Member

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    I personally have found that sometimes an off the wall approach can confuse the old hands that are used to seeing the same boats set up the same way and fought the same way so much as to for a short time give an advantage. It's purely mental mind you. Lol.
     
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  9. Renodemona

    Renodemona Well-Known Member

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    Jeff put a sidemount in the aft Secondary in Rodney at Nats. It was OK'd by CD and not challenged by anyone as far as I know. I don't interpret the rule as currently written explicitly stating the cannon has to fire into the stern quadrant, merely that it is mounted on the stern part of the ship. If it were me I'd run a Dunkirk with 3 sidemounts, one each in the mains and one from the aft secondary. But I like to patch.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2020