USS Idaho (BB-42) (1945) IRCWCC

Discussion in 'Warship Builds' started by Anvil_x, Dec 30, 2018.

  1. Anvil_x

    Anvil_x Well-Known Member

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    The furlough looks to be in full swing with no let-up, hope it doesn't last too long because I like work, but this is a golden opportunity to get started on my FY19 project.
    The USS Idaho, as she appeared in 1945, will be a wooden hull using the Profile Morskie plans. I'm currently talking with my friend, the high school's local tech ed teacher, to have some of his kids commissioned to CAD out the bow and stern. The clipper bow of the New Mexico class is configured such that it it appears it would be vexing to make as a wooden model in the IRCWCC rule set, so I am hoping that his industrious high school students will be able to print off the bow and be able to follow the clipper's contour forward.

    Given that, I have perused the threads, and found a single Idaho which was apparently worked on in 2010 (link below) which appears to have a straight line from the rib approximately 1-2" back from the bow at waterline

    https://rcwarshipcombat.com/threads/uss-idaho-bb.441841/

    This would make my life a bit easier, but is this IRCWCC legal? @Kevin P. and the Judges who would be making the determination of her legality at NATS next July, I would appreciate your yes/no.

    If not IRCWCC legal (and I assume it's not), looking at the cut contour of Kevin's California, how would you deal with this in a wooden hull, should the CAD/printing fall through?

    Moving on. This hull is meant as a study of the delightfully pragmatic American Standard-Type Battleship and the class 5.5 Allied ship. Where the Texas was built as an experimental hull, with the obvious drawback being that her modifications are, at best, haphazard and not as cleanly integrated as I would like, the Idaho will be built from the keel up to incorporate the lessons I have since learned, along with a few @Kevin P. and @McSpuds techniques.

    The batteries and CO2 tank will be located centrally as in Kevin's California, with the vast majority of ballast installed below them a la Spud's South Dakota. The hull will be from the beginning configured to accept two pumps, and after some hemming and hawing at the plans, the wiring and pneumatic lines will be run along the ribs in a manner similar to Texas, but with a ready-made alcove cut into the ribs which will hold them in place while simultaneously allowing me to armor the wires etc, as they will be outside the standard plexiglass citadel. Hold comments until I show pics. you'll get it.

    Plexiglass armor will be mounted using L brackets installed on the ribs at the top with a fixed nut, which will avoid longitudinal drilling into the ribs themselves (repairing the Texas from that mistake).

    I plan to mock up the 1.5 and 1.75 props I have in order to figure out how to crank the most maneuverability possible out of this hull, while maintaining good acceleration. I plan to use 40 pitch props. If you have an argument for using a 15 pitch prop and what gear ratio to use, I'd like to hear it.

    Electrical will be 6 volt. motors will be 550 Johnsons. After my BC gears literally chewed themselves apart in Saranac, I am going to get a set of 32 pitch gears. @WillCover suggested I have at least one side of the gear mesh be sacrificial nylon gears. I concur. If anyone has suggestions regarding sites to purchase them, please do share.

    Regarding Armament, I'm intending to do something unconventional. I've roughly determined my preferences for tactics after significant help from PPB and GLAS, on the water specifically the Idaho's Peer-opponent (@Panzer 's Baden) and Mark's incredibly pesky Graf Spee.

    I'll mount more guns than she can arm at a single time, and with two pumps (1X1 Unit and 1X.5 unit) have some tactical flexibility. While the scheme should allow for some brawling with peer and near-peer opponents, its primary objective will be to study the potential of use as a support platform for a larger friendly combatant, and use for harassment/interdiction of Axis major combatants.

    Picking up the plans and some more wood on wednesday. Will update as things progress.

    Also, to make sure my normie friends remain interested/confused, I have codenamed FY19's endeavor after the most dangerous thing Humanity has ever encountered: The Questionable Fart.

    Never Trust a Fart.
     
  2. Kevin P.

    Kevin P. Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like a good plan. The only ‘judge’ is the text of the rules, so the hard area in the bow can’t exceed 2” aft of the stem. That bow looks like it would exceed 2” at the top just below the deck rim (also probably wasn’t built for IRC). If it was built that way you could grind away wood at the top to get a compliant contour, shouldn’t be too difficult. The bottle on my boat ended up in the bow based on excessive batteries, but planning for getting it in the middle is a good idea if you can make it work
     
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  3. Anvil_x

    Anvil_x Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Kevin. I'll do some thinking and talk with my buddy. if we print the bow, I'll likely make that ground-out portion of the bow super thin to facilitate printing.
    Failing printing, I have another backup plan. a really neat-o backup plan.
     
  4. Commodore

    Commodore Well-Known Member

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    That bow isn't as bad as you think it is, a little dremel and file work on plywood and it would be just fine. Here's a pic of NM in drydock for reference:
    [​IMG]

    As for the stringer, it's allowed to extend one rib past the 'feature' in either direction, so Buddy's stringer is likely legal.

    If fiberglass does not offend you, you could pick up a BC Colorado hull and add casemates to it, the Colorado and New Mexico classes were similar enough. (The torpedo bulges were slightly different, though. I may not be remembering correctly, but the New Mexico class battleships may have each had different bulges, too. Go fig.)

    If nothing else, I would strongly suggest getting in touch with the PPB folks, they're somewhat nearby (Minnesota), and quite knowledgeable and helpful. When it comes to building a ship, nothing will help you nearly as much as being able to talk to someone and see some ships in person.

    Good luck!
     
  5. Anvil_x

    Anvil_x Well-Known Member

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    Hey dude,

    Yeah I'm a PPB member, and hope to make it to GLAS battles frequently in the future. GLAS and PPB are both fun groups. I've built wood and fiberglass combat boats, and generally prefer wood because I'm a forester and woodworking's my thing.
    There are significant differences in the bulge configurations between the rebuilt NMs and the CA/TN/WV hull, such that it's something I wouldn't consider. Eventually I will continue my study of the Standard-Type BBs by constructing another member of the family. If so, I might use that BC hull. But this Idaho will be wood, with the possible addition of some 3D printed components.

    Time constraints may restrict the builds of others, but I'm currently prohibited by law from even going to work without the permission of my District Ranger. Even to retrieve my personal winter gloves from my desk. So for the foreseeable future, I'll be working on boats from wake-up to bed, with periodic interruptions for food, dates with my Girlfriend, ice fishing, and learning how to make wooden spoons.

    With luck, the Powers-that-be will restart the Government. Until then, BOAT-PALOOZA!!!!

    Have a good one, I'll keep you guys updated!
     
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  6. Kevin P.

    Kevin P. Well-Known Member

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    Finally remembered to grab pictures of California. If I was building it fresh I would maybe move rudder post aft 1/8 to 1/4”
    Looks like rudder post is 3/4” from leading edge
    8A01DECA-650C-467C-A0C8-FCD392E6915D.jpeg
    Approx turn, probably trim travel to less than this to not slow down too much in turn
    6D6A2A43-9E4F-496B-B2B1-C71BD21EF2D8.jpeg
    C09EF76A-1DEE-4C6A-A05F-B4BE50D5D2EC.jpeg
    Might not pass the scrupulous eye of the keyboard nation, but it performs well on the water which is what I value, hope it serves some use
     
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  7. Beaver

    Beaver 2020 Rookie of the Year Admiral (Supporter)

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    My keyboard disapproves of this setup! ;)
     
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  8. Anvil_x

    Anvil_x Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Kevin!

    looking at that, yeah I'll do my best to move the post back and increase size relative to that rudder's area. Fingers crossed.

    I'll of course post a ton of pics during the work, so hopefully I'll be able to crank out the best turning radius possible.

    I managed to select the ribs I'll be carving out, but have been a bit busy...
    IMG_20190107_182409[1].jpg

    Went in to work today and got placed on Standby status as the emergency backup for my Sale Administrator. After getting the whole nine yards about not being paid for the work, I went out with my boss and caught dinner.
     
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  9. Anvil_x

    Anvil_x Well-Known Member

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    Rib work today.

    I went through and marked all of the ribs on one print that I intend to use. I spent a fair amount of time on the telephone with @kgaigalas and thanks to his help, avoided a few SNAFUs.

    So I went with the even ribs, which managed to line up rather well with the armor belts. Frames 2 and 40 are the hard area, while even frames from 2 to 38 are the selected ribs.

    I'm going to do up this print as the guide and transfer the noted 1" below WL hard areas, Belts, etc over to the other prints.

    But I have a question. Note on the print, the width of Frame 2. Here's a picture of the frame's location relative to the longitudinal axis:

    Note: I know the top of that frame is well more than 2" away from the extreme bow. I have a plan that will keep her IRCWCC legal. See Kevin's guidance above, and later picture postings.

    frame 2.png

    Frame2A.png

    At the waterline, Frame 2 is 1/8" thick. this of course tapers even sharper, basically becoming a knife blade. I expected this. Here is my proposed solution: the hard area at the waterline will be no material added, since my keel/bow contour is going to be 1/4" plywood. So I plan to have latitudinal slices of ply and basswood notched on for the above and below flares where the frame is thicker than 1/4". But at waterline, and for the parts of the bow hard area that are 1/4" or less in thickness, I intend to just sand the bow contour plywood to the proper thickness.

    If you don't follow me, that's fine. I have extra wood and all the time in the world.
    Alternately, if Anyone has done a wooden clipper bow like this before, advice and pics would be welcome. If not, I'll plow in and figure something out, then post pics.

    Ice fishing again today. back in time for dinner. Have a good one!
     
  10. Kevin P.

    Kevin P. Well-Known Member

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    Looks like something is off on the plans, no way that frame 2 on the side view is only 1/8” thick at the WL. I’m just looking on my phone, but the frame you are pointing to on the hull sections looks more like frame 1 than frame 2. Again, I don’t have the full set of plans and can’t really make out things from your pictures, but pictures of the real ship and the booklet of general plans I just saw on google have that area (frame 2 on side view above) significantly thicker. I could probably find California plans and take a picture if you needed to cross reference those
     
  11. Anvil_x

    Anvil_x Well-Known Member

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    yeah hey that'd be fantastic. if you need to take a look at my plans, I have them on PDF and can email them to you. I'll triple check my lines in the meantime, and I have fish to clean, so it's not like this is going to throw off my day or anything.

    It certainly didn't *seem* right.
     
  12. Anvil_x

    Anvil_x Well-Known Member

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    Oh WOW. I just checked the plans. the contours are WAAAYYYY off from the hash marks on the side view of the hull. Can you check your Morskie Yamashiro plans and see if they make any sense?

    There are forty two contours, including those two small ones on the clipper bow. and forty hash marks on the side view. I assumed they were associated, and that the last two on the clipper bow were just not included because they were last the length at water line.

    I cross referenced the rib lines to the width of the hull at given points, and I think I can make heads/tails of it. it looks like they put a ton of contour lines into the bow and stern, and skimped on the midships.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2019
  13. bsgkid117

    bsgkid117 Vendor

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    I've done a wooden hull or two or five if you want me to check out your plans for you too.
     
  14. Anvil_x

    Anvil_x Well-Known Member

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    So. Tomorrow, I'm going to spend the day on a Light table, lining up contours with the rest of the plans and figuring out which ones are the ribs I'll use. I've marked out the subdecks and stringer locations on the contour.

    Per @bsgkid117 's suggestion, I've pinpointed the aft-most rib, and tomorrow will find the bow rib that will be the start of the hard area. Once I have those, I will mark off frame 24 (the rib where the step is at), and work from these three points to get all of the ribs dialed in.

    Sooooo glad I have a huge light table available. otherwise this would be painful. Hopefully I can start cutting ribs by thursday or friday. worst case, I'll cut on Saturday.
     
  15. Kevin P.

    Kevin P. Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like a good plan, the lines look like they should work out if placed in the correct locations
     
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  16. Anvil_x

    Anvil_x Well-Known Member

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    Lots of time at a light table today.
    Managed to get 25 usable ribs out of it, and will whittle them down to the 19 I will use. the hard areas (not included in the previous figure--19 ribs plus the two hard areas) were surprisingly easy to find.
    I started with them, and worked my way toward the midships. funny thing, it turns out that frame 23 is basically the central eight inches of the ship. so I shouldn't have any trouble with that one.
    IMG_20190109_150752[1].jpg

    Also found out that the Special Agent in charge of Law Enforcement on my National Forest is a big time RC combat tank driver. so I showed him my copy of the plans, etc when I ran into him today. good dude. He fabricates his own tank hulls and stuff by casting with resin and RTV molds.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
  17. Anvil_x

    Anvil_x Well-Known Member

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    So I ripped the boards to make the build board and the two deck segments yesterday, and spent the evening assembling my build board. While looking at the plans this morning, I came up with an interesting idea.

    The problem: the Morskie plans are that the contours have no uniform disposition along the hull, so the spacing between the ribs I figured I would use (center-to-center) is between 2.5 and almost 3.5 inches. this means that a lot of my ribs are bunched up in certain segments of the hull, while others are spaced rather far apart.

    Possible solution: Take the morskie contours, cut out the ones that are approximately where I want them, glue them down to some 1/8" foam board I have on hand, cut out the forms, and using these foamboard forms, freehand draw a modified shape based off of them on the back based upon the neighboring contours, and the rest of the plans in order to create the hull contours at the locations where I wish for the wooden hull ribs to go.

    After looking at some of the other wooden hull builds people have done, and examining the way they solved the problem of adding ribs where their plans did not have them (ie: like on the texas plans where there are only like eight or nine contours and the ship needs sixteen or so), I think this is a viable solution.

    Input on the technique is welcomed
     
  18. Anvil_x

    Anvil_x Well-Known Member

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    So I went over the rib spacing this morning, and it looks like there is relatively little adjustment needed. Three ribs to move and adjust. Currently, I am working on drawing lines on the build board with a T square. I'll spend the whole day dialing in the board, then move on to cutting out the rib stencils. Don't have much to do since "F Your Paycheck Friday" has seriously curtailed my outdoor endeavors, so this will likely keep me busy until the Victoria Season premier on PBS tomorrow night.
     
  19. Sinkazuki

    Sinkazuki Active Member

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    Who would win a fist fight between Poldark and Prince Albert?
    OK, Ok Poldark ties one hand behind his back.
    Wandy
     
  20. Anvil_x

    Anvil_x Well-Known Member

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    There is no comparison between the dogged fighting prowess of Ross Poldark and the delicate Prince Albert of Coburg. Pretty sure Demelza could Curb stomp Victoria too.