USS Idaho (BB-42) (1945) IRCWCC

I can follow that.
I'll post up pics of what I do when I get the part back. the wooden spine and backing *should* be able to handle the stress with the way I intend to join them together, and I'm already planning to glass it, but I'll definitely give it even more thought with regard to reinforcement. There are a few tricks I can do, and I have Sugar Maple to do them with. and that stuff is almost as hard as Ironwood. I'll probably look at glassing the back side of the bow, the keel, and subdeck together.

Glassing over Texas' balsa bow basically just made it like a crunchy coating over the soft interior, so if it gets hit with a BB, the BB cracks right through the glass and makes about a 1/4 to 1/2" deep hole, which I patch over at the pond and then fill in when I get home. the bow on Texas will slowly but surely be replaced in this hilarious manner.

But with glass over a 99% Infill, I think it'll be a tough nut to crack, even against those psychotically powerful guns that Mark has on his Graf Spee over in Saranac.

 

UPDATE:

My Tech Ed teacher buddy is using the bow as a learning tool for one of his students. the kid's nerdy, but generally disinterested in school, so he hopes to get him engaged and pull up his grades by having him pattern, digitally input, and fabricate the bow for the Idaho.
I'm going to talk with him later, and offer fiscal incentive for the kid. My hope being that if the kid associates good work with financial gain, that we can together have a positive impact on his life.

I don't know how it will go, but we'll see. Since the bow is a bit of a keystone piece, work on Idaho will cease until further notice.

Efforts will shift to checks and tweaks of Texas in order to make her ready for the 2019 season as my lone combatant. This will include adding pictures of the FRAG 1 refit to the stem-to-stern thread for her, so stay tuned for pics of that.

 

Okay. So the Bow thing didn't pan out. I don't know what happened with the kid, but my buddy gave back the bow segment.

Since the PPB spring battle got cancelled, I can't make it to NATS (in the middle of buying a house), and am in need of things which keep me from spending loads of money right now, I have restarted the Questionable Fart Project.

Right now, I finished cutting out the interior of the ribs forward of the step. I'm predicting a question about the stringers--a picture answer will come next weekend.
Note the points sticking up from Ribs 8, 9 and 10 in the midships. I am going to build a battery tray, and they will be holding the battery tray in position. There will be bolts involved--wait and see.



I'm going to do something interesting with the Step Rib today, and do the first cuts on the aft ribs.



For those curious, here's a few pics from the new house. The seller is an insurance agent outside of Chicago that has been running it as a rental property. He's retiring, and is in the process of selling off all of his rental houses.

Most recently, it was rented to a Hoarder, and these pics are from like a week after she was evicted (that's my realtor giving the thumbs up) with about 50% of the junk removed.
Apparently, the Hoarder had been a problem for a long time. Things came to a head when the listing agent went to show the house, the hoarder said it was "clean and ready for showing", and the prospective buyer ran face-first into a wall of trash and stink.
Hence eviction courtesy of the Price County Sheriff's Department.

I didn't even see the bathroom until the second showing, because it was *literally* filled to the ceiling with junk, with--I kid you not--a five foot high flying buttress of junk in the hallway holding it back from spilling into the hall. The place cleans up nice though, and the seller has been more than happy to have the place deep-cleaned.



creak-free 74 year-old curly maple floors, Three season porch in the back, nice workshop garage, decent space for a garden, and a couple of spare bedrooms. The old school craftsmanship is amazing.

I'll be working on the boat until I finish closing on the house in the end of july. Then it'll be refinishing the floors and moving until at least september when the Fam comes to visit, and hunting seasons start. There will be trips to Saranac and Chanhassen interspersed.

 

Picture time!!

So I finished clearing out the ribs last week, stopping before I hit the last one so that I could customize it as part of the rudder servo tray. Sorry about Pic Quality today. it's not 100% great for some reason.

Anywho. Pics.

So I decided to make my servo tray removable, and use a few other semi-novel features in its design.


These were the 'guts' that I pulled out of the ribs. I'm reusing them. One as a support, the other as a hinged 'slosh blocker'. I'll go into further detail once I finish building that particular feature, but it involves doing a hinge out of some cool stuff.

Here's the rudder tray laid out.


Here it is before I cut the holes out to allow water travel

And with drain channel holes. I took a minute after seeing how small these openings were, and made them bigger. see below.


Next, I had to drill the holes for the prop shafts. But I don't have a drill press. My shafts are 1/4" diameter.....


So I used my Cribbage stencil and the included bit.
IMPROVISA. ADAPTA. SUPERA.
(it sounds cooler in spanish)


Shafts installed! took a bit of filing to tweak the ribs and allow for a smooth, straight travel.


Pic of the prop placement. I put them as close to the hull as possible (clearance is about 1/8" from the rib). With the stern contour of the NM class, it's a bit of a squeeze to get the props in, while maintaining enough space for a large rudder with a lot of travel. Where the props are set now, I can have a Class 5 rudder capable of covering 75% of my thrust cone. STBs are never going to maneuver great, but I'm hoping to be able to pull off a decent amount of maneuver for a single rudder and parallel shafts.

If you want tighter props on an STB, I'd suggest looking at @Kevin P. 's California build. I used those photos as a general guide since the hull forms are very similar in the stern, sans the toe-in shafts. Toe-in shafts are not my thing.




Anywho, here's the servo-rudder layout I'm going to do. spacing center-to-center isn't too bad. Once I get the links in from the robot shop, I'll finish the servo tray.



Next hit task will be installing the outer shafts. these will be going through only two ribs, so they won't be too hard to pull off.

So far, I'm pretty impressed with the amount of space inside the Standard Type Battleships. Compared to Texas, this hull is a breeze. What's going to be particularly nice is the sloped water channeling in the stern, and the slosh mitigation measures featured throughout. One of my bigger problems with Texas was her water channeling, which will be fixed in the FRAG 2 upgrade this winter.

 

Here's some shots of sunday night's work.

The Drag Props and shafts are fitted. took a fair amount of filing to get everything arranged, but they're in.



After looking at the overall layout of the shafts, I found myself asking "How am I to replace these shafts without literally ripping the hull's framework apart!?"
I'm currently thinking of how to construct a channel around the drive shafts right now.

General idea:
Gear Boxes are between ribs 13 and 14. Abutting 14

Shafts are bored through ribs 14, 15, 16, 17, and rest in a notch on 18.

I am thinking of cutting out a square channel in ribs 14, 15, 16, and 17 where the shafts are currently bored through. Rib 18 would remain as-is, since it is not a bore hole.

Using 0.41 mm brass plates, create a 'sleeve' running the length of the square channel into which the prop shafts would be dropped. (see illustration)

Once the shafts are fitted to the sleeve, line the interior of the sleeve with silicone and drop in the shaft. Plate over the top with balsa, filling the voids. sand to match the rest of the hull form. Paint the shaft channel an obnoxious color to delineate it easily from the surrounding material, and then glass over the hull.



This way, if the shafts need to be replaced (likely, considering I'm trying to build this boat to a "twenty-season"standard), the swap procedure would be as follows:

1: sand the red paint off of the bottom of the hull

2: Identify the shaft channels via the obnoxiously loud color, and the brass lining to either side.

3: using a dremel, score the fiberglass along the channel. Use a knife to peel the glass/balsa off to expose the shafts.

4: remove shaft, old silicone. clean, service, replace.


I think this idea might very well work.

I'd appreciate input. Don't bother naysaying unless you give an explanation. I'm willing to change my mind, but there needs to be a good case made, fitting within the paradigm of "replacing a shaft in a wooden boat like one would do in a fiberglass boat is a crime against good craftsmanship, imagination, and American Ingenuity."

I deal with enough "That's a great idea, will help the forest, and save the American people millions of dollars, but I'm a bureaucrat and therefore obligated to stop you from doing it on principle" at work.

 

Cool idea. I know you probably don’t want to hear it, but I’d recommend getting the drive shafts closer together so the blades are top to tip. If you want them to be parallel then have at it, but everything performance wise gets better with the props closer together, otherwise turning/acceleration will be an unnecessary trade off. Shafts are something that I really try to get placed in the best configuration first time around because they are typically life of ship components, and relatively more difficult to adjust down the road.

For removability, if you use brass tubes with oil lite bushings then the bushings should be the only thing to replace, and if you get flanged ones they can be popped out quite easily. The tube itself would only need replacement if you want to change spacing or if you drop the boat stern first off the bench.

If I was trying to implement our idea, I would wax the brass and use epoxy/filler vice silicone since I like the shafts in the boat to be solid. Silicone should still work since the channel would be pretty long.

I build a lot of boats so I try to build efficiently from a time perspective, so I would not see this as a good time/benefit trade off, but it’s your boat.

 

LOL that is precisely the sort of thing I want to hear, Kevin. Thanks.

And you know what? doing this shaft sleeve would be a good excuse to get those props even closer together. If I scoot the props aft about a quarter inch, I have enough clearance with the Skeg to get the props almost touching.

So. Now I've to hunt down some of these bushings.

BTW. I didn't post about it, but I have dropped Texas Stern-first already. decimated the rudder, everything else was fine (thankfully). that's part of why I want to have ready swap shafts.

 

I made no special provisions to make Bart's shafts removable, but simply due to the materials science behind epoxy trying to hold onto smooth stainless steel tube, you can rip them out if necessary. I had one spin 180* while drilling them out for the larger bushings for the new prop shafts when the drill bit into the metal at a bad angle. Whoops. Either way, I dont keep spare stuffing tubes in a toolbox. That's the kind of catastrophic damage that typically takes you out of an event or puts you in a backup boat.

Also, to get the props closer together, I'd do some serious damage to that keel/skeg in the stern with the sander. Sand that shit right off. Get the props so close that they kiss, then back off a .005".

For bushings its real easy, no hunting required. https://www.mcmaster.com/bushings

 

Thanks for the link. Yeah I'm gonna try and get the props closer together, since I'm doing this. all I have to do is scoot the props about a quarter inch further aft of where they are now and I'll be able to bring them in almost touching.


Hey so what size are you guys running? the only flanged Oillite bearing I'm finding with a 1/8 shaft diameter is 1/4 on the OD
I am finding non-flanged that are the right size, but the flanged model would push me up to a 5/16 stuffing tube. I'll try the non-flanged for now, and see how they go.

Yeah, we're from different schools of thought on this one--but your output is incredible to watch. I've got Texas fully operational, so I can take my time getting Idaho and Alaska online.
Among my other hobbies, I make wooden clocks and carve utensils. The philosophy behind those are probably influencing my build strategy. If I take until spring of next year to make a combat debut with Idaho, I'll consider that a victory. Hopefully I'll keep my engineering at "Clever" and not "Over", which is the ever-present risk associated with the "quality over quantity" side.

 

I’ve used both flanged and non, I like the flanged because you get a good clean contact surface for the prop or collar, also removal would be easy if necessary. You are correct that you’ll need larger tube, I want to say that 9/32 is what’s required since I remember purchasing a lot of 36” tubes but I don’t have the specs in front of me.

I prefer to try for quality and quantity. Building a lot have ships has let me go through a lot of design generations, so each ship can incrementally get better from lessons learned for the previous ships. I keep the aspects that are great, revise the ones that didn’t work as well or came from ideas of other high-performers pond side.

I agree that the random piece between the props now needs to go. Might look interesting on plans, but has no place on a combat ship haha (I’m sure keyboard nation will revolt on this)

 

Good point. you're on what, Ship #20 or so? Idaho's Boat 3 for me, and there was a 15 year gap between 1 and 2. So in order to build high quality, I have to spend a ton of time doing stuff in the first place.

I bought some flanged in addition to the non-flanged, so I'll see how 9/32 looks when they get in.

And yeah, we've come to the Skeg. I left a support strut on the skeg like @McSpuds does to keep the stern from doing any stupid stuff. And *Guess what the prop's hitting now*--the skeg. Not by much, but enough to where I'll have to work on it.
I've carved the new channels in, and they're pretty nice so far. I'm currently assembling the brass liner for the channel, and having some fun with it. the design is panning out so far.

 

Here's the channels so far.

It consists of the following items:
3/16X3/8 rectangular tube. cut in half so that it has an open top.

0.16X3/4 strip of brass on the outboard. 0.16X1.0 strip on the inboard

take a 3/16X5/16 tube, wedge it in there to hold the walls in place.

The 5/16 rectangle tube will be cut in half in a similar manner, providing the structure to hold the walls in place while removing most of that height you see inside the channel.

Next step will be undertaken when the bushings arrive. That involves soldering the channel components together and cutting them to length (rib 14 to rib 18)

I'm debating developing a stuffing tube which will take advantage of the channel. Will subject it to rigorous testing prior to installation.

Basically, the main stuffing tube will be 7/32", with a 1/4" square tube sleeve for the majority of the channel length(rib 15 to 18), allowing for a tight fit. Forward of rib 15, a sleeve of 1/4" will be used to mate the stuffing tube to the bushing, and pass into the GB500. Aft of rib 18, to the prop will be either a 1/4" sleeve with the recessed bushing, or if a flanged bushing is used, gauged up to a 9/32".

Again, the above is an idea which will be subjected to rigorous examination. I will likely go with a standard stuffing tube.

Anywho, Long term:

once the channels are ready, I'll return to finishing the stringer bottoms of the penetrable area using 1/8" Maple. Once that's complete, I'll glue the hull components together and begin filling in the voids between the ribs with Balsa, Oak, Maple, and other hardwoods (depending upon the area, and required durability).
Once that's complete, I'll sand the stern area into contour, reinstall the channels, and trim the walls until they are flush with the surrounding materials.

By that point, it'll be time for glassing. Expect a lot of interruptions, as I'll be closing on my house in late July, and spending a lot of August working on the house, moving in, and cleaning out my apartment.

 

Okay so I simplified the channel design a bit.



the design is as follows:

3/16X3/8 rectangular tube. cut in half so that it has an open top.

0.16X3/4 strip of brass on the outboard. 0.16X1.0 strip on the inboard

a 1/4 X 1/4 square tube Stuffing tube housing

wedge maintained by a 0.032X1/4" brass strip.

This overall gives the tightest spacing, which will require some filing of the skeg to make clearance. clearance between the blade tips is 3/16"

I'm going to build and test my stuffing tube idea today. If it works, the pics will be up ASAP. If it doesn't, then I'll overhaul the idea until I am satisfied with the outcome.

here's a mockup of the clearance:



Here's the clearance prior to the channel idea for comparison:


difference is about 3/8"

 

Sorry for the Broken record here, but tip to tip i.e. as close to touching as possible is recommended. I also recommend having the props not stick out beyond the width of the ship, so if another boat rubs alongside in that area you won’t lose prop blades (I’ve lost a few over the years). Sort of hard to tell from pictures but looked like they extend a bit. Fixing usually requires moving the props forward until the width of the boat is wide enough. Same applies to drag discs/props, they can get removed quite easily if they stick out and are not very robustly mounted

 

Yeah the outboards and inboards are within the hull shadow. The drive props aren't moving any closer together--they're as close as you can get without having a major revision of the hull. Remember those pics I sent you via PM a while back? I did all that, and this is as good as it gets with a wooden hull.

 

Nonsense, those props can get closer together easily.

Sand that skeg down/remove it completely. It serves no purpose on a combat model.

Cut new channels for your shafts to give them a bit of toe-in which will also bring the blades closer together. With the new room on the de-skegged hull, you can definitely get them almost touching.

I went through this on two different boats, would be no different here. The main thing I learned was that this is something that is 100% worth doing, even if it did require a major hull revision. I butchered the crap out of Dunkerque to get the props closer together and learned my lesson, with Bart I altered the hull slightly under the water to de-skeg her before saw ever met wood.

 

Nah, they're not going to. Check what I've said before. No toe-ins, no hull mods, no skeg cuts. Within that paradigm, I'm already at the best I can get.

And seriously, please stop making me repeat myself. I don't crap on you for whatever religion you subcribe to, quit attacking my building ethics.

 

No where in here did you say anything of the sort. In fact, the only comments you made here in regards to the skeg was about how it was in the way and how you were needing to file it down. So the "sand the skeg out" is along the lines of an aggressive filing it down. No where in this build had you mentioned anything about toe in props or such. I had figured going through the effort of building this ship you may want some actual advice from someone who's been there. My apologies.

Good luck with the build.

 

He did indicate he was not going to do it like Kevin did his California. That one is more like you are suggesting. So he has indicated his preference before you made your suggestion. Within the constraints he has placed on himself, he is maxing it out.