Guys, I just received an email from a guy in the U.S. who thought I made VU hulls. He believed the casemates on a VU hull he got from a friend were inaccurate. He thought that in exchange for modifying the casemates to match whatever plans he has, he should have the right to copy and sell the slightly modified hulls "in compensation" for his work. I don't know if this is one of Ralph Coles' recent VU hulls, which were made from a very detailed set of Austrian plans, or an earlier VU hull made by IRCWCC members about 10 years ago. No matter who made it, slightly modifying and then selling copies of someone else's hull is considered dishonest and hull copying has been strongly discouraged in our hobby. The last person who was caught doing this was put out of business and expelled from a major naval combat club. I told the guy not to copy the VU hulls and warned him it could have consequences for his future participation in the hobby. I think the hull is probably one of Ralph Coles' because there were only a few IRCWCC VU hulls. The last copying incident almost made Ralph stop making new hulls for our hobby. Please notify me if you hear of any VU hulls for sale from someone other than Ralph. Bob Pottle NABS
I can't believe that anyone would be that obtuse. Obviously, someone is, which is disheartening. I will see that this gets crossposted to the MWCI mailing list.
Copying Ain't good... (Even if modified.) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -Justin "Nothing says you care like industrial Equipment..." www.basinshipyards.com http://thetriphome.blogspot.com
If the chap wants to make and sell that section of the hull he has "revised", so be it. However, if he thinks that gives him the right to copy someone else's hard work, and reproduce entire hulls, even if it's technically legal, it's morally wrong. Besides, what is he, a rivet-counter or something?
While I understand both sides, especially since it is legal (don't worry guys, i'm not going to do it, haha) - Perhaps if he found the builder he could either give him a small percentage of the profits or buy the partial rights to the hull. If the builder cannot be found after an extensive search then i think that gives him a little bit more moral ground to sell it - although I realize many would still consider it wrong and offensive.
Kenny, taking a fiberglass hull, modifying it in a minor way, and then using it as a plug is not legal. If he were starting with a one-off wooden hull, I might could see your point above. But if I bought a, say, Battlers Connection South Dakota hull, shaved a half-inch off the back of the skegs, and then made a mold from the result, I would be stealing their work.
Guys I see the points made for both side of this argument and considering I am also in the Replica Prop Community I have seen the worst of recasting and the best. This is the accepted rule of thumb in the Replica Prop community when it comes to recasting or in this case remolding a hull. Most folks will turn their heads when about twenty percent of the prop has changed before it was recast. In the case of a hull that would be talking on reshaping most of the waterline area of the hull for instance. There is a reason that this is accepted the way it is in the Prop community is due to copy right that exists on all the props being replicated. This is just my stance on how it should be viewed in our community. Basically copying or Recasting should not happen when it comes to making items to sell. It is just wrong as there is no way you can alter enough of a hull to satisfy anyone that the changes had been made. On the other hand to have bought a hull and then make a copy for yourself only I find as good. The catch to that is when asked about said hull by others it is a hull made by the original maker and if someone wants one that maker is the only one to get the from. So far I have yet to make a copy of anything I have bought Mainly as I have no need of an extra of a hull yet. I will likely copy a hull when it gets damaged to a point that the repair will not be sturdy enough and at that point I would seal all the windows and go through the hassle of cleaning up all the hull to then make a copy. Again it would be to allow me to then have a sturdy hull again that I had originally purchased. Also I would seek the makers permission to do said copy and assure him it was for the purposes of making a hull that is again of a condition to battle with. I welcome folks opinions on my stance and will listen to what others feel in this community since it is this community that is my peers. Also no I am not the guy from Ohio, I live in Acworth Georgia.
I see your point, John, but I'd say for the work and concentration of making a mold well enough to make a good hull, it would be much faster and easier to just buy a new hull from the guy that made it. Also, the first couple of hulls one makes tend to be much lower in quality than one made by someone who knows what they're doing (air bubbles, delamination, etc), to a point that it's cheaper to buy one But honestly, with proper maintenance and repair, a fiberglass hull should last more than 10 years. My old I-boat has passed thru several hands and served well past that, a nice return on the original purchase price from Swampy.
Clark I agree with you. That is a main reason I have not even made a copy of anything I have bought to date. Now I am working on my own hulls that currently none else makes, but that is way different. I mainly just wanted to share an opinion that was different from those out there just to well put forth another view mainly. I honestly despise stealing anyones work and calling it my own. It is just not right.
I understood, John Good luck with your hulls and molds. Don't hesitate to email if I can be of help with anything I LOVE seeing new and different ships rather than 50 North Carolinas
not to be the devil's advocate, but let me throw an example out there for everyone to mull over: Joe and Bob both buy ship plans from the same supplier, both live in totally different regions. Joe makes a plug to make a mold, to make fiberglass ships to sell. Bob builds a wood hull and battles with it for a while and decides to that he rather have a fiberglass one and sell some extras to offset the cost of his hobby. Now Joe has been selling his hull for a while and sees that Bob is now selling the same hull identical to his, dose he have any right to complain? I guess my point is that since there is a limited source of plans out there it is kind of hard to prove "copying" especially if the hull is accurate. Shouldn't people be more concerned with the quality/value of the hull anyway? I would think the more suppliers of hulls, the better off we all are. Just my opinion.
That's not the issue, though. The issue is more one guy buying a fiberglass hull, then making a mold from that hull, and selling hulls made from the mold. Basically, using the original hull maker as an unpaid R&D department (at best).
So he thinks people would rather have them with the correct casemates - i'm sure he has plans, he makes a hull and from there a mold. Now he can sell his ships. Or he could just say thats what he did and nobody could prove him wrong unless there is a fatal flaw in the lower portion of the hull. I'm not supporting that - i'm just saying there isn't much anyone can do about it.
I don't know anyone who's getting rich making little boat hulls (among me, Bob, Ralph, and BC, anyway). If the people who make the little boat hulls for the hobby get no support, what's the point of making them?
Gentlemen I have made over 20 hulls for both swampworks and BC . If some body thinks they can copy them. Think agian. I have marked each hull plug in way to be able to prove who made them. Ron Horbul PortPolar Bear
Wow! Ok I see everyone is a bit upset over this,now I am not the one doing this. But I have a question , cause I really dont know. Who all made the VU hulls?Now what if the orignal person who had made this doesnt make them any more? I would not copy someones work with out talking to them , that does seem wrong and off the beaten path.
Even if the original person is no longer making the hull, without their permission, it is still wrong to steal their work.
