This weekend Washington Treaty Combat officially kicked off. We had a total of 8 ships see action over the two days we were in Ravenna: IJN Yamato, DKM Bismarck, SMS Markgraf, USS Alabama, FS Suffren, FS Strasbourg, FS Dunkerque and HMS Invincible. Cameo non-combat appearances were made by IJN Mogami and FS Bearn. All in all, the action was great, and fun was had by all. The new rules packages introduced were a smashing success. Captains with both fast gun and big gun experience were there, and all captains expressed a desire to battle under the treaty format again. I personally feel the product is far superior to what I experienced in the fast gun world. Mike D
The rules seemed to work wonderfully. We had both big gun and fast gun guys there, and all seemed to really like the package. The one thing we all for the most part felt we needed to work on was adjusting the guns. We had them firing awfully weak; for this event we used a blue foam test. If the guns were penetrating 1" of foam at 12" we were shooting too hard. One of the founding fathers is going to do some testing and the gun rules will be adjusted accordingly. Mike D
I think they want to avoid blowing out ribs and shooting off superstructure. We don't really need a TON of velocity to penetrate 1/32" balsa. There had been talk about getting a chronometer, but it was a bit pricey, so we are trying the big-gun blue foam method. I think they are going to try a 2" piece of foam next (I think that's what they use in big gun). Mike D
Yeah, 2" of foam is what we use in Big Gun. It works good, and I've never seen a rib blown out unless it was made of balsa (!) Several big gunners use fiberglass hulls from Swampy without any rib reinforcements, and they work just fine. Nothing ever blown out on them, and back when they were first built, we weren't very good about penetration checking.
That sounds like the end result we are looking for. We want to punch holes in enemy ships but not cause serious "carnage" to superstructures and such. That just frustrates people who like to spend time detaining superstructures, and NOBODY likes replacing ribs because they got blown out by guns that shoot theough 1/8" plywood. There is also the safety factor...some fast gun cannons just arent safe as hard as they shoot. Mike D
Mike D- Do you have data to show that a legal "fast gun" cannon is unsafe or can shoot though 1/8" ply? (I assume that you mean birch 5 ply aircraft grade)
Ive seen people claim it on the IRCWCC list. MY cannons can't do it, but certain other individuals have said they won't run guns that don't do it. I do have some plastic through material on my Courageous that has been completely penetrated, which one would think could stand up to BB fire quite well. Mike D
Could they have been exaggerating, for effect? Telling fish stories, perhaps? Would it be best if I contacted somebody from IRCWCC for details? Is your plastic though material the mesh stuff, that is often seen in craft stores?
I have seen fiberglass hulls shot through, but it's a rarity. Never had my 1/8" ply(lower levels of superstructure) shot through, though.
Mike, I've seen PVC used for main gun barbetts broken by shots from a single shot gun. A couple years back I shot thru a Maxwell House coffee can. No need for that, all we are shooting at is 1/32nd balsa. I know there are pictures out there from Ohio that shows hobby ply on the lower levels of superstucture that was trashed by gun fire. Not what I am looking for. We prooved this past weekend that you don't need that. bob
Specialist- I suppose that's possible, but the guy who I am referring to has guns that shoot WELL. I tend to believe what he says when he talks about how well his guns work. Now its possible that I am mistaken on what he said; it was several months ago, and after reading a post I made on our internal email list, corrected me that his guns can shoot through 1/16" plywood. Its certainly possible that I have the original email at home, but he does say his guns can shoot through 1/16" ply, so its more then likely that I remember his old post wrong. Regardless, I think shooting through a coffee can is a bit excessive as well! I guess you can contact someone in the IRCWCC about it if you wish, but IIRC, there is nothing in the rules that limits penetration, only the PSI. As long as the regulator tests at 150 PSI, doesn't matter what the velocity he can get out of his guns is. As for my plastic its not that mesh stuff...this is solid plastic that looks much like PVC. I'm not sure exactly what it is; it was in the ship when I get it. I've got 2 or 3 places in there where it's been completely penetrated, as well as places on my fiberglass superstructure that have been completely penetrated as well. I'm not sure WHOSE guns were hitting me that hard, but someone was. Mike D
How old was the plastic? At our last battle, my ship took a pounding to the extent that the epoxy holding the hull to the deck/subdeck was shattered in many places. At first, I was thinking someone had really heavy guns, but then it occurred to me that the ship is like 10 years old, and that was the original epoxy
HI Guys I amo going to wade in here a little bit. A fe wmonths ago I posted what is to hard of a hitting gun. I had the V in the sides of my South Dakota with reinforced fiberglass shoot through by twin guns of a Yamato that were set and legal in the IRWCC. I have also seen the 1/4 plywood used on super. of a North Carolina shhot through by the same ship. It sounds like you are useing shower liner you get from a home depot store, it looks liek plastic. If it is stretched tight a BB will go through but is you leave slack in it to absorb the energy it will not hole. Buddy
Our club uses a cheap paintball chrony, the v-locity by Viewloader. It has more than enough accuracy for our needs, and as it's got a bad reputation in paintball circles for cutting markers, it might be available cheaply from paintball suppliers or paintballers who have one and don't use it anymore.
Just tried to shoot though 1/8" 5 ply aircraft grade. An air rifle at 625 fps, shooting wadcutters will not go though. It does buldge the back, but does not go though. A 1000fps rifle will do the job. (1000 fps is not quite suppersonic) Keep in mind that a air rifle pellet has about 1.5 times the mass as a bb. And the veloicty of the 625 fps rifle yeilds about 10 times the kentic energy as the hardest hitting bb. And that SILL will not go though 1/8" 5 ply. There is no way that you are shooting though 1/8" 5 ply with a bb cannon. 1/4" aircraft 5 ply is even more impossible. Most of the cannons you can buy max out at about 200 fps- and that is rather borderline for a combat tweak. 180 fps would be more realistic. A good custom cannon might be good for 240 fps on the border line, and 220-230 combat tweak. I belive that good cannon could shoot though 1/4" balsa- but not plywood.
