What can BGCWI do for you?

Discussion in 'Big Gun Combat Warship International' started by Droidling, Aug 7, 2009.

  1. Droidling

    Droidling Member

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    The idea here is to find out what BGCWI can offer to member clubs. Certainly there must be something that big gun clubs or even individual captains would like help with. So throw out some ideas. Remember there are no stupid ideas...Well clearly there are quite a few stupid ideas, and if you don't throw out some of your own you may get to see how stupid mine can get.:)
    Thanks to John for the idea.
     
  2. froggyfrenchman

    froggyfrenchman Well-Known Member

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    RE: What can BGCWS do for you? I think it would make it easier to start local clubs, in addition to motivating those clubs that are either inactive, or not overly active.
    Perhaps mostly because there would be more mutual support from more folks.
    Mikey
     
  3. froggyfrenchman

    froggyfrenchman Well-Known Member

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    RE: What can BGCWS do for you? There would perhaps also be more battles, more often, and in more places, and with more skippers.Mikey
     
  4. froggyfrenchman

    froggyfrenchman Well-Known Member

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    RE: What can BGCWS do for you? Which in the long run, would mean that when a new person discovers r/c warship combat, and decides that they are interested in big-gun style battling, they have a better chance of finding a local club that is having battles on occasion.
    Mikey
     
  5. wrenow

    wrenow RIP

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    RE: What can BGCWS do for you?
    This is the first, and most obvious point, Mikey, good call. By having a sanctioning body to go to, like NAMBA, you have a framework/starting point for a new club, with a model rules set.
    Your later points as well follow from this - if you are holding sanctined events, you are more comfortable in believing you "know what you are getting" when you go, and are more likely TO go.
    Another point. When dealing with govenrnmental entities (like the Parks Department when you are trying to get permission for battliing on that pond), it adds an air of legitimacy that you are working under the rules of an International body, not just the rules some locals "cooked up in the back yard." In this case, most Big Gun clubs would be operatiing, for sanctioned events, under the rules of tso different, independent International bodies when it comes to safety, etc. NAMBA Int'l. and the more specific to combat BGCWI.
    Also, if a ship is built to the eventual BGCWI standards and certified, you have a better idea what you are getting without having to research another club's rulesets to see if there are any oddities that might render the purchase a "really bad deal" in your particular club. Like the rib spacing in NTXBG not being appreciated in WWCC, or the WWCC Nelson with 1" extra added below the waterline giving heartburn in other clubs that do not allow an extra 1" (I don't believe any other clubs do).
    SHOULD eliminate some of the "my club's rules are betterr then your club's rules" arguments (create more harmony?). The question now becomes simply a debate on a particular rules change (granted, that can become heated at times, too - people differ), but it take some of the chest thumping out. At least in theory.
    Cheers,
     
  6. mabgfounder

    mabgfounder Member

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    RE: What can BGCWS do for you?
    Having ships certified to BGCWI standards would be great if there was any reason to believe the certifications were consistent. From what I've seen an owner claiming that a ship was certified for this club or that doesn't reliably tell you how it was built. I could go on but this is not the first problem. The first problem is getting any of the clubs to follow some standard rule set for owners to claim they are complying with. This is not going to happen until there is a benefit for doing so. I think this is why the original poster asked how BGCWI could help.
    If you want people to build to one set of rules over another it needs to be easier to do so. The main difficulties I've seen new members struggle with are
    1. Building a hull with correctly spaced ribs. If new members could buy pre-marked glass hulls or correcly spaced wood hulls that took the guess work out they would probably buy them. What happens now is the new builder marks their hull, waits until the next meet to have it reviewed, and then cuts it. This adds a minimum of one month, and usually more like two or three, to a build.
    2. Getting cannons. We need a reliable source of cannons which are known to fit in the above hulls. I don't know if anyone else has had any luck with BDE lately but we've not. Over the years I've repeatedly had members say that cannons did not arrive when expected and that inquiries about the delays are ignored. I've not ordered cannons from them so I don't know.
    If someone provides those two things then they have provided a great service to new builders. I don't know if it would be enough but it certainly would be a step in the right direction.
     
  7. Kotori87

    Kotori87 Well-Known Member

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    RE: What can BGCWS do for you? Hey guys, lets not worry about the construction rules right now. It's a great idea in theory, but as we've seen on the Big Gun yahoo group, there are issues. How about lets focus on something new clubs can use, like a standardized set of safety rules?

    I suggest we dig through each club's safety rules, discuss them, and write a comprehensive set of safety rules that we can reasonably recommend that all new clubs follow.
     
  8. DarrenScott

    DarrenScott -->> C T D <<--

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    RE: What can BGCWS do for you? Now that's a good idea. Standardise safety rules first.
     
  9. admiraljkb

    admiraljkb Member

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    RE: What can BGCWS do for you? The safety section of early draft BGCWI Rules of Combat seems pretty standard/common sense, and I wasn't anticipating any changes being needed there. With that said, what modifications did you have in mind?
     
  10. admiraljkb

    admiraljkb Member

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    RE: What can BGCWS do for you? The safety section of early draft BGCWI - Rules of Combat seems pretty standard/common sense, and I wasn't anticipating any changes being needed there. With that said, what modifications did you have in mind?
     
  11. admiraljkb

    admiraljkb Member

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    RE: What can BGCWS do for you?
    A ship certified for a particular club, with the paperwork filled out (and made available), is pretty easy to ascertain if it's legal for BGCWI sanctioned events. I've got cert spreadsheet for that which makes it pretty easy to fill in the blanks with the calculations and the pass/fail evident. But realistically, a TO in a BGCWI club is going to need certify the ship, and either the ship owner or the TO submit it for approval. If the dimensions are off by more than the "honest builder" error allowances, or an unnecessary waiver granted then it might not be approved by BGCWI, while being legal (or just allowed) in it's home club. If those official forms are available to the buyer via BGCWI, and the ship doesn't match, then he seller is probably in hot water.
    #1, StrikeModels is particularly interested in the construction standardization so they can offer precut or pre marked hulls (among other reasons as a vendor selling hulls). There is immediate benefit there, because I agree that ribs and spacing are a real pain. I have to deal with that just as a TO all the time. It's a pain to certify. That's the biggest cause of "honest builder error" waivers that I've seen.
    #2 - agreed. Cannon supply is a big problem. I'm hoping that gets resolved reasonably soon.

    cheers
    Jeff
     
  12. DarrenScott

    DarrenScott -->> C T D <<--

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    RE: What can BGCWS do for you? There are some things that stand out for me.
    A maximum gas pressure for cannon systems.
    A maximum cannon velocity, chronys are cheap and readily available, so foam testing (which is not very accurate anyway) should go the way of the dinosaurs.
    A minmum level of eye protection. Don't know what the US. standards for eye protection are, here in Oz we use Australian standard 1331, medium impact.
    Safe conduct guidelines for all.
    Cease-fire for man-in-the-water, unprotected spectator, etc.
    Safe radio operations.
    First-aid availability.
     
  13. GregMcFadden

    GregMcFadden Facilitator RCWC Staff

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    RE: What can BGCWS do for you? If you are looking at safety, I would add that the regulations for CO2/HPA cylinders should be followed (we are legally required to follow them anyways). That would mean cylinders for both refill and boat use must either be exempt from testing requirements or be properly stamped as tested, and must be undamaged.
     
  14. wrenow

    wrenow RIP

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    RE: What can BGCWS do for you?
    Actually, Greg, on this one, my personal opinion is that, more like NAMBA, it should not get to deep into actually legislating things that area already regulated. Since those regulations can change, trying to specify too much can lead to future conflicts. Thus, a more general rule seems appropriate. There has been a lot of discussion on this in the HPA discussion re:NAMBA rules, so I will not rehash here.

    Basically, if it is alredy reglated somewhere else, no reason to clutter the rules with details that might either someday conflict or might tend to incur additional liability by making a non-compliance a pile on.
     
  15. GregMcFadden

    GregMcFadden Facilitator RCWC Staff

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    RE: What can BGCWS do for you? I did not intend to rehash the rules, would simply state that you must conform with appropriate federal/state/local rules. the one exception would be that I would emphasise the "no damaged tanks" thing since that is something that unless you do the testing, you might not know about.
     
  16. Droidling

    Droidling Member

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    RE: What can BGCWS do for you?
    I think this is Jeffs main purpose for starting the BGCWI. The question is how do we do it. May be we need to look at what is standing in the way of clubs that are getting started now.
    I'm close enough to make it to the WWCC events. (1.5 to 2 hour drive) There have been people in my area interested in Big Gun that never seem to make it to an event because of the drive. I've been thinking about starting a club nearer my home, but the big issue is finding a pond. If the BGCWI had an information packet on on how to approach getting access to both private, and public ponds it would be a huge help.
     
  17. warspiteIRC

    warspiteIRC RIP

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    RE: What can BGCWS do for you? The Namba Insurance Safety rules were developed by me and as many of the fast gun and Big gun people I could find to gain input from. It is/was intended to give an overal guideline for the induvidual clubs while allowing them to add anything they felt they needed in addition to those rules.

    Marty Hayes
     
  18. admiraljkb

    admiraljkb Member

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    RE: What can BGCWS do for you?
    Thanks Marty. Very very Good point. "Abide by NAMBA safety regulations" really needs to be up top on Safety - with the normal bits following. I'll put that in. That should already be in all the rulesets already technically. :)
     
  19. Droidling

    Droidling Member

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    RE: What can BGCWS do for you?
    This is truly amazing. I started this thread because of this comment in the rules thread.
    I thought it would be a damn fine idea to ask people what they really want, and to take the focus of the discussion off of rules. It's becoming apparent that about the only thing established Big Gunners want from BGCWI is to unify the rules. Or more accurately find a way that we can all play by our own rules and still get along.:blink: There are people who are working on that. I really wanted to hear about other things that new Big Gunners, or those starting new clubs might want from BGCWI.

    I said if nobody threw out there own silly Idea I'd put mine out there.

    How about a certified pre-owned battleship program. When someone wants to sell a ship they get the TO to check it over and list things like hull dimensions, verify the water line and penetrable area, rib spacing, etc., and write it down for prospective buyers. Maybe even take a current picture or two. I know I would feel more confident buying if there were a way of knowing more about what you are getting.
     
  20. admiraljkb

    admiraljkb Member

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    RE: What can BGCWS do for you?

    That's not silly at all. That's one of the major things that I think BGCWI needs to provide. Makes things easier for ships to travel between clubs and have a pedigree of sorts. I did a Certification Spreadsheet as the TO in NTXBG to help make the certification process consistent, fairer, and harder to accidentally fudge. With the sheet doing the major calculations (in metric and SAE) for the TO, it's a pretty much immediate pass/fail for the local club, and the TO of another club can immediately pass/fail/waiver it remotely for the purchaser provided their counterpart TO did their measurements correctly. Certification is generally a very hard/thankless task, so the sheet makes it a lot easier. I plan on using that as a *starting point* for technical records standardization. Got a couple of edits to do on the template, and then going to turn that loose to the general public, course it's aimed at the club TO's for data recording and club Secretary's for recordkeeping. (sheesh, I've got a couple of edits on nearly everything right now)