Which ship for me?

Discussion in 'Ship Comparison' started by WaterSide, Jun 7, 2011.

  1. WaterSide

    WaterSide Member

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    Decisions decisions, after staring at Conways boat book for over a year now I have narrowed it down to 3. This ship will be for Big Gun and I prefer the Axis ships. I am looking specifically at the torpedo cruiser with the possability of adding guns down the road ? not sure how effective they would be,
    A Capitani Romani ,Spahkreuzer or a M- R class German Cruiser. Not much information for the M class but it may be a possibilty. The easy part would be the Capitani - premaid hulls that can be cut. The other 2 would need to be drawn out and made from scratch.
    Any thoughts people have on the 3 ships would be helpful.

    WaterSide
     
  2. Kotori87

    Kotori87 Well-Known Member

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    Capitani Romani is an excellent boat that I would highly recommend. Fast as a destroyer, small and agile like a destroyer, but enough freeboard to handle heavy seas. That's why it is a cruiser, not a destroyer. Several have been used with great success in the WWCC, and my shopmaster and I were seriously considering building several more of them with single-barrel-multi-ball torpedoes and no added depth, to hunt down other torpedo-boats. Unfortunately that project got put on hold while we finish the Battleship Gascoigne Project. Maybe next year...

    Spahkreuzer is another good torpedo-cruiser, but has a few more drawbacks. First, it is much harder to find plans for it, since it was never completed. Tactically, it is slower than the Romani but has triple shafts/triple rudders, so turns very well when you get the mechanics down. I sailed one for several years, and won Most Feared Skipper and Last Man Standing with it. It is not very suitable for single-barrel-multi-ball torpedoes, since it is too slow to hunt other torpedo-boats. For best effect you need proper triple-barrel torpedo cannons for use against battleships.

    Kreuzer M is NOT a ship I would recommend. First, plans with hull lines will be almost impossible to find, due to the purely hypothetical nature of the ship. Without plans, you can't build the boat. Second, it is a very large ship for a light cruiser. It is almost (but not quite) large enough to arm both guns and torpedoes, but trying to do that will overstuff the hull and make maintenance much more difficult. If you stick with only torpedoes, it will not be fast enough or maneuverable enough to compete with other torpedo-boats, and if you arm only guns, it will not have a useful deterrent against other torpedo-boats.

    I would also like to draw your attention to another good possibility: the French light cruiser Emile Bertin. It is similar in size to the Giussano-class cruisers that are popular in the WWCC. Also like the Giussano-class, it is extremely fast. Unlike the Giussano-class, it has triple torpedoes. It is larger than the Capitani Romani but not so giant as the M class. The extra internal space and displacement makes it more forgiving to rookie mistakes than the smaller ships, but it still maintains much of the sports-car-like handling of the smaller ships as well.
     
  3. Gascan

    Gascan Active Member

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    I don't think there is much info on the Spahkreuzer or M-R class cruisers. There are a few plan and profile views, I think, but I haven't seen any rib sections. Add to that the fact that those two cruisers are hypotheticals, which not all clubs allow, and you've got some issues to deal with before you can get to work. I happen to think the Capitani Romani is a very cool ship. Not only does it have a relatively simple hull shape (flush deck is very easy to build compared to a step-deck like the Le Fantasque), plenty of freeboard (which improves sea-keeping in heavy weather), it has quadruple torpedo tubes (a nasty punch) and a top speed of 40-something knots. The simplicity of construction, better documentation, and speed and armament of the Capitani Romani make it my top recommendation.

    My brother Kotori operated a Spahkreuzer for a few years in the WWCC (he didn't build it, just gave it a major overhaul, so don't ask for rib sections). He was voted Most Feared two years running with that boat. He said there was only one boat he was ever worried about: the Scipione Africanus, a Capitani Romani-class cruiser. Not only was the Romani just as maneuverable and heavily armed, it had a higher top speed, was easier to build, and never ran into any troubles with sources of information.

    Pick the Romani. It's a better boat than the other two and doesn't have any of the troubles that you will likely encounter with the other two.
     
  4. WaterSide

    WaterSide Member

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    I am amazed at the knowledge and insight this group has regarding the ships. How will the Capitani or Emilie Berton be placed , Axis or Allied ?
    Ill take a 2nd look at the Emilie Berton , but you have really convinced me on the Capitani.
    How do you figure out the Torpedo tubes, If i remember correctly, Big Gun only allows 3 tubes per side . Gascan you mentioned Quad torpedo tubes or is that 2 per side ?
    Also , how do you determine if a boat can carry cannons and what size round . Im thinking the Capitani would be purely Torpedo Cruiser no cannons.
     
  5. Anachronus

    Anachronus Well-Known Member

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    The Capitani's are better looking I think. Most groups go by the WW2 sides Axis = Germany, Italy and Japan. This confuses the heck out of a Great War guy like me. I keep thinking Italy and Japan are allies.

    Not sure about the Emile...France being on both sides during WW2.

    Well so was Italy.
     
  6. Kotori87

    Kotori87 Well-Known Member

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    Hey Waterside, I just checked your profile and saw that you are literally right next door to my local Big Gun club, the WWCC. We are in San Jose. Even more importantly, there is a battle this Sunday. this is a great opportunity! Come meet the skippers and see the ships of the WWCC. I can arrange for you to borrow a boat so you can learn the basics of ship-handling and combat. There may even be used or partially-completed ships available for sale. I know I have a very nice Emile Bertin hull that I've been saving for a rookie skipper.

    @Anachronous, France and Italy are usually used to balance the teams in the WWCC. Except during the Campaign Game, where they get to choose individually which side they want. Since most Japanese ships are WWII-era, they go Axis. I can't wait to turn that tradition upside-down with my Mikasa :)
     
  7. Gascan

    Gascan Active Member

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    If you are from San Mateo, CA, as your profile says, then you are right in the back yard of the WWCC, my club until I joined the navy this year. You will likely even meet my brother Kotori at the event this weekend. I hope you will attend: there will be great info and possibly ships for sale. In fact, I just remembered that Kotori has a partially built Emile Bertin hull that he doesn't really need. He also is looking at making some new cannons for his Z-31 destroyer, which will leave him with an extra set of torpedoes. Admittedly they'll be single barrel Arizona cannons (which fire three balls to simulate triple torps), but those are better for ships that don't have any added depth, as is the case for both the Z-boat and Emile Bertin.

    To answer your questions, most WWCC battles are Red team vs Blue team. This allows us more room to balance the teams and get a better battle. The only exception is the annual Campaign Game, in which France and Italy are allowed on either side. I mentioned that the Romani had quad torpedo tubes because, IIRC it had two quad mounts (the Bertin has two triple mounts). The WWCC is the only big gun club to limit torpedoes to three per side, and I didn't know you were in that area so I thought it might be relevant to know the full armament. The armament each ship is allowed is whatever the ship historically carried, except for the max of three torps per side. Of course, that doesn't mean you can fit all those weapons in the ship. It is generally best to arm only the torpedoes on most cruisers and destroyers because of their small size. That defines their role in combat: use small size and speed to get in quick, deliver one hard hit, and escape to reload. They can attack merchant vessels, sucker-punch a battleship distracted by another fight, team up to swarm a battleship, or go on counter-torpedo missions. That's starting to get into high-level ship combat theory, which may be a bit advanced for now.
    Edit: I started writing, then chatting with Kotori on Skype, and he beat me to the punch!
     
  8. WaterSide

    WaterSide Member

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    Scary, you two are thinking along the same path. I have been to 1 of the events but havent had the time to put into the actual build , Like I mentioned I've been looking and pondring over and over for information on how or what to build. Ill have to check whats planned for this weekend . If I going to make a ship It will be a fresh new Capitani Build .
     
  9. Kotori87

    Kotori87 Well-Known Member

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    But of course! We're identical twins, after all.
     
  10. buttsakauf

    buttsakauf Well-Known Member

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    May I third their opinions on the Capitani. I have one that is mostly completed and I really like its setup. It has a nice flat bottom, good lines, not overly complicated on the superstructure. Easily powered by 400 sized motors. Could even do a single input dual ouput gearbox with a 550 size motor. There is enough weight to work with that it is easy to build and not be sitting too deep in the water. George M of the WWCC makes some very nice torpedoes.
    Mine would be finished already but I had my first kid and went on deployment overseas. Finally I moved from coast to coast and got settled in and what do you know... shoulder surgery!
    Best of luck on your build. Patience and precision will reward you exponentially.
    Mike B
    MN2 USN
    FNS Normandie
    RM Capitani Romani
     
  11. Evil Joker

    Evil Joker Member

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    I vote Capitani good ship in fast gun should be a good ship in big gun looks good too [​IMG]
     
  12. WaterSide

    WaterSide Member

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    Im getting more interested in this build as the days go by. I will definately take my time on the build and ask for help with how to build this from the group. A group effort will make a better product in the end. It will also take me a bit of time as I tend to get a bit meticulious or precise.
    What are all my possabilities for set up , motors batteries etc.
    I have to ask because I dont know a thing about the build.

    WaterSide
     
  13. Kotori87

    Kotori87 Well-Known Member

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    As Gascan and I mentioned earlier, come to the battle. You can take a look inside various ships and see how they are built. You will learn far more just by looking for a few minutes than I can possibly describe by writing. Call me out at the battle and I will give you a grand tour of the WWCC fleets. I am very easy to spot, since I'm the only pirate there with a shiny cutlass and a flamboyant hat and a square-rigged pirate ship.
     
  14. Anachronus

    Anachronus Well-Known Member

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    You can't help it if you are understated. ;)
     
  15. WaterSide

    WaterSide Member

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    I wont be able to attend this weekends event, shore leave was denied being its our 12 yr anniversary on Sunday. Ive seen the ships interior and it can be a bit complicated. I give all of you credit for the skill it takes in knowing how to build these boats. Its not easy. The whole build is somewhat of a challenge for any beginner. I need to find plans next.

    I will have to catch you at the next Event. In the meantime I need to gather more info on what I need and how much this will cost .
     
  16. phill

    phill Active Member

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    Historical accuracy. there was only one French ship on the axis side during WWII. It had been scuttled by the French in Toulon and was raised by the Italians. The US sunk it using aircraft after a couple of months.
    The irony is that the German army asked the German navy if there was any way the French ships at dock could resist the army. The German navy said that the army had no chance of taking the ships. The German navy knew what they were talking about after having sunk most of their own ships in Scapa Flow only 20 years earlier. The German navy failed to take any ship of escort size or larger. Something like 42 major french ships were scuttled in the port of Toulon to keep them out of the hands of the German navy.
    The French ships were fired upon by most navies during the war. They had a tendancy of shooting back. HMS Barham took a 15 inch shell to the bow off of Dakar while trying to sink the Richelieu. She withdrew and the British tried areal torpedo attacks. The Jean Bart straddled the Maryland with her 15 inch guns during the bombardment of North Africa. With slightly different luck, the US may not have succeeded in the north africa landings.
    The Richelieu was working up in Scapa Flow later in the war and just missed the battle with the Scharnhorst. She later participated with the Allied fleet in the pacific and was in Tokio harbor with the Misourri when Japan surrendered.
     
  17. NATIVE79

    NATIVE79 New Member

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    I thinking of building the USS OKLAHOMA for my first ship what do all yall think ?
     
  18. Renodemona

    Renodemona Well-Known Member

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    OK is not a terrible ship, first or otherwise. It is fairly good sized inside, plenty of weight for all the internals and working room. From a build perspective it should be fine especially if you have other RC or model experience. However, it is a slow battleship (28secs), which means you can't run away from anything. She also has 2 shafts and 1 rudder, whish is not an optimal setup in our hobby. I understand the want to build the ship of your state though. You might want to consider it for a second ship, once you have a bit of expierience both in building and battling. If you are leaning towards an American ship, you might want to look at Brooklyn, Northampton, or Cleveland class cruisers. All are class 3 with 3 units which means you get 2 guns and a pump. All have enough weight to be built with relative ease. All are faster than any ship that can carry side mounted cannons. If you really want a battleship, you might try the Tennessee orArizona. Same number of units as the OK but are in the intermediate speed catagory (26secs) and have 4 shafts. Hope that helps, or at least confused you more. :)
     
  19. NickMyers

    NickMyers Admin RCWC Staff

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    The above advice is good.

    In the future please consider starting your own thread though, as your question doesn't really have much to do with this thread and posting a question on an old thread (necro'ing) that doesn't really relate to the original thread is generally discouraged.
     
  20. NATIVE79

    NATIVE79 New Member

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    I was thinking of building the HMS HOOD for my first one instead of USS OKLAHOMA. What yall think?