Wood or Resin hulls?

Discussion in 'Construction' started by warhawk, Jan 1, 2011.

  1. warhawk

    warhawk New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2010
    Posts:
    15
    I am still learning the hobby but wondering about hulls.

    I see resin as a good strong option but I hear they are always uniformed hull thickness. I know this does not make a huge diff but when putting the deck on I see it could be a bit of a pain.
    On the other hand wood hulls if cut right should be very uniformed. But guessing they wieght is a little more with them. Guessing I have to coat the hole thing with resin/expoy to keep it from rotting over time. You don't have to fuss with cutting windows and that does scare me a bit.

    Just wondering which you guys like working with best?

    Thanks
     
  2. Tugboat

    Tugboat Facilitator RCWC Staff Admiral (Supporter)

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2007
    Posts:
    8,298
    Location:
    Statesboro, GA
    I have examples of both types of hulls, in unreasonable quantity :) Battling-wise, it doesn't matter to me. A well-constucted ship of either type is going to do well on the water. I like building wooden hulls more than I do fiberglass hulls, but once they're together, I don't have a preference. You do have to watch the wooden parts of both over time for signs of rot (we're talking many years if the wood is properly waterproofed, I like West System or Maas beand epoxy for this). You may have a bit more room in a fiberglass hull (wood ribs take more space inside), but then you may have to reinforce the fiberglass with a wood rib, eliminating that advantage. With a new hull from BC or Strike Models, you won't have to reinforce it, both companies are putting out high-quality hulls. I think that a wooden hull assembled using joinery holds onto its caprail and deck assembly better than the epoxy joint in a fiberglass hull is capable of, but I've only had issues with that on older ships that were due for an overhaul anyway.

    My advice on which type to choose: If you haven't got good solid woodworking skills, go with the fiberglass hull. It'll save you a lot of time and headaches. If you have good solid woodworking skills, and the ship you want to battle isn't available in a fiberglass hull, build it! If you can build a hull, and the ship you want is also available in fiberglass, you have a dilemma, but a happy one.
     
  3. Kotori87

    Kotori87 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2006
    Posts:
    3,522
    Wooden hulls are much more fun to build, plus a skilled builder can get better results from a wooden hull than from fiberglass. On the other hand, a not-so-skilled builder can get much worse results with a wooden hull than with fiberglass. In general, I classify hulls into three categories: knock-your-socks-off, mediocre, and epic fail.

    I have only seen wooden hulls in the Knock-Your-Socks-Off category, not a single fiberglass. This is really reserved for the best of the best hulls, where good quality construction actually provides a noticeable combat advantage to the builder. Details on most of these hulls are classified by their builders, however, and I am not authorized to explain the whats or the whys.

    Pretty much all fiberglass hulls, and most wooden hulls, fall into the Mediocre category. These hulls perform their basic function (resembling a scale ship) well, but provide no real bonuses in combat. They have nothing that stands out from the crowd, hence they are merely mediocre.

    If you royally screw up a wooden hull, it falls in the Epic Fail category. These hulls are so poorly constructed that they actually detract from combat performance. An example would be a transport whose skeg is built too wide, blocking water flow over the prop and rudder and reducing ship-handling. I imagine it is possible to screw up a fiberglass hull enough to categorize it as an Epic Fail, but you'd almost have to deliberately screw it up.

    The other thing to keep in mind is that no matter what hull you build, a larger part of your success in battle will come from how well you build the guts of your ship. A good hull helps, but it is far more important to do a good job on the guts. Just like hulls, a ship's guts can be classified into three different categories: present, functional, and serviceable.

    You don't want guts that are simply present. Hardware like that is no better than ballast because, while it is present in your ship, it is not functional. There is no point in having a gun that doesn't fire, or a pump that only works half the time. Unfortunately, a number of shipbuilders believe that "present" is good enough. A few years ago I saw an Atlanta-class cruiser that had all main guns armed, and six torpedoes. The skipper neglected to install a CO2 system, pump, and battery, however, with the result being a totally non-functional ship. An unreliable gun, clogged pump, or corroded servo wire also counts as Present, not Functional.

    Your goal should be to at least have Functional guts. Guns that fire consistently, a reliable regulator, a pump that starts up every time are a basic requirement for survival nowadays. In the olden days it was OK to not have functional guts, because nobody else had them either. But nowadays, a lot of people's ships are functional. A single average ship today is more destructive than the biggest battleships of 10 years ago, because the average ship works. It fires when you pull the trigger and pumps when you take damage. The props turn when you throttle up, and the radio still works after it's been sunk. The downside to merely Functional guts is that they are not easily serviceable. On the rare occasion that something does break down, it's a major multiple-hour operation that may even require machine tools to repair. In other words, you're out for the day.

    The most difficult goal for shipbuilders to achieve is to have Serviceable guts. These guts are not only functional and reliable, they are easily serviced. If something breaks down, you can field-strip it or replace it in fifteen minutes. Corrosion and water damage twitching out your rudder servo, five minutes before battle? Pop in a new servo. pump inlet clogged with weeds? Pop it off its magnetic mount and scrape off the goo in seconds. Turret rotation servo got water inside? Flush that sucker with Corrosion-X without even taking it out of the ship. I have even seen a few ships break the 1-minute mark for replacing major components. Some people don't plan for serviceability at all, while others place so much emphasis on ease of repairs that they get too complex and sacrifice basic reliability.

    In short, if you've got a skilled wooden shipbuilder to help you, or you already have experience with ship-building or woodwork, a wooden hull is the way to go. If not, then fiberglass is better. Either way, the most important part is how you put the rest of the ship together to make it work.
     
  4. froggyfrenchman

    froggyfrenchman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Posts:
    3,358
    Location:
    Dayton, Ohio
    Fiberglass would be generally quicker to get you on the water. But then you have a limited number to choose from.
    If you go with a wooden hull. Then you can build whatever you can find plans for.
    In either case. It is best to hook up with someone that already has a boat, so that you can see how they built theirs.
    There are a lot of great build threads on this site that would make either choice easier.
    Mikey
     
  5. warhawk

    warhawk New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2010
    Posts:
    15
    Thanks for that info everyone.

    I am buying a wood hull kit. All the ribs, keel, sub deck, and other things. My wood skills while not expert I do know my way around the tools and have done wood working projects. So not too worried about a wood hull build. I know their will be lots of things that I don't know about building. I am really looking forward to building the wood hull

    Real good to know BC and SM both make good resin hulls those are my next choice on ships.
     
  6. Tugboat

    Tugboat Facilitator RCWC Staff Admiral (Supporter)

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2007
    Posts:
    8,298
    Location:
    Statesboro, GA
    What wood hull kit are you buying?
     
  7. mike5334

    mike5334 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2007
    Posts:
    1,877
    Location:
    Mississippi
    Is that one of the Baltimore kits from up North? One of the CAD designed, laser/milled wood kits? If so, it'll build perfect unless something really bad goes wrong. :)
     
  8. warhawk

    warhawk New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2010
    Posts:
    15
    Yeah it is the Laser cut Baltimore kit
     
  9. mike5334

    mike5334 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2007
    Posts:
    1,877
    Location:
    Mississippi
    I've seen the designer's work ... you should have no problems putting it together. :)

    Heck, I would LOVE to have a precut wood kit of ribs, subdecks, decks, keels, and such to start a build with!
     
  10. froggyfrenchman

    froggyfrenchman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Posts:
    3,358
    Location:
    Dayton, Ohio
  11. froggyfrenchman

    froggyfrenchman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Posts:
    3,358
    Location:
    Dayton, Ohio
    I just couldn't help myself. I am such a turd.

    My new fiberglass Alaska is in the background.
    The sub-deck is installed, and the deck is in place.
    Windows are cut out, but not cleaned up just yet.
    My stringers for the armor belt are currently too thick, as I have not yet decided
    just how I want to go about layering the belt.

    Phil's new Baltimore (from one of Mark's new wooden kits) is in the middle.
    Phil was able to assemble the kit in a fairly short period of time. It fit together very nicely.
    The rib stations are notched into the sub-deck. So there is no quess-work as to how far apart to space them.
    He is now in the process of wrapping the bottom of the hull.
    A really nice kit indeed.

    My new Le Terrible fiberglass hull is in the foreground.
    The sub-deck is installed, and the decks are in place. Windows are masked off, and ready to cut out.
    Mikey
     
  12. froggyfrenchman

    froggyfrenchman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Posts:
    3,358
    Location:
    Dayton, Ohio
  13. froggyfrenchman

    froggyfrenchman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Posts:
    3,358
    Location:
    Dayton, Ohio
    Just thought I would add some salt to the wound.
    You can kinda see the 1" below the waterline plate, and the double-keels in the Baltimore.
    Mikey
     
  14. warhawk

    warhawk New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2010
    Posts:
    15
    That is a nice looking ship. Going to pick it up this weekend and he offered to help me get started on assembly as it is my first build. Got to buy glue tomorrow if I don't forget again.
     
  15. froggyfrenchman

    froggyfrenchman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Posts:
    3,358
    Location:
    Dayton, Ohio
    If you don't get around to picking up the glue before the weekend, I have plenty on-hand. So don't worry about it.
    I am looking forward to meeting you all.
    Mikey
     
  16. mike5334

    mike5334 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2007
    Posts:
    1,877
    Location:
    Mississippi
    You guys should be able to frame that ship in only a few hours. I'm Jealous! Heh.
     
  17. Tugboat

    Tugboat Facilitator RCWC Staff Admiral (Supporter)

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2007
    Posts:
    8,298
    Location:
    Statesboro, GA
    Part of it is perspective in the photo, but the Balti looks almost as long as that Alaska!
     
  18. froggyfrenchman

    froggyfrenchman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Posts:
    3,358
    Location:
    Dayton, Ohio
    Yes
    And it also looks a lot like the Alaska.
    As they used general cruiser theory to build her.
    Mikey
     
  19. froggyfrenchman

    froggyfrenchman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Posts:
    3,358
    Location:
    Dayton, Ohio
  20. froggyfrenchman

    froggyfrenchman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Posts:
    3,358
    Location:
    Dayton, Ohio
    Stephen starting to work on his brand new Baltimore class cruiser kit that he got from Mark.