WWCC Frame Spacing Rules

Discussion in 'Construction' started by AP, Feb 7, 2014.

  1. AP

    AP Member

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    A question for you WWCC types. I would like to see if the frame I built years ago would be legal per your local rules.
    The ribs are at 1.5" intervals at 3/16" thickness, maintaining 1" per 1/4" thickness of rib. The strange part is this. It is built of 1/4" material. I knife edged the thickness down to 3/16" from 1/4" in the penetrate area. At the skin, it is 3/16", but it is 1/4" at the most inboard edge.
    The SCBG T.O. gave me a pass on it back in the day, provisionally. He hadn't seen it. His determination was made via e-mail. It was certainly a unique technical determination to make.
    You might ask why I did this. Well, laziness. I had some great plans that just happened to have those stations on them. Most of the profile work was done for me. I cut down the ribs to comply with density rules.
    Anyway, just wondering if that hull could be used if I were to jump back into the hobby.
     
  2. jstod

    jstod Well-Known Member

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    I am not our T.O. but I am guessing no. Our rules basically say 1" per every 1/8" of rib. so if you have 1/8" ribs you need 1" of space between 1/4" ribs need 2" of space and the largest you can have, 3/8" need 3" of space in between. All measured from the edge of the ribs. Now we do have waivers for certain instances but I doubt 1" between every 1/4" will be allowed.

    An idea for an easy fix is to cut out every other rib only where the penetrable area requires it similar to cutting windows in a fiberglass hull, and adding thickness to the remaining ribs to get them within rules. Just a thought.
     
  3. AP

    AP Member

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    I misspoke. The spacing is in keeping with 1" spacing per 1/8" thickness. (I'm hurting. 3 hours sleep last night and my left arm is on fire from nerve damage.) but I think I got the rest right. 1/8 buys me 1", and 1/4" buys me 2". By splitting the difference with 1.5" I think the rib thickness is to be 3/16". Thanks for the correction /clarification.

    Another question. Do you measure center to center, or absolute space between ribs discounting the thickness in the measurement?
     
  4. AP

    AP Member

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    :rolleyes: Well, shoot. Hard to resist. I guess I'll pull the hull down from the garage ceiling tomorrow and take some pics. The old ones don't do the job well. I'll put a ruler along it for scale.
     
  5. jstod

    jstod Well-Known Member

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    We measure absolute space between the ribs.

    Ah I see thats a new one that the T.O.s will have to discuss, reviewing our rules: http://www.westernwarshipcombat.com/images/stories/WWCC_Rules2013.pdf (page16)
    I don't see why it would not be allowed. The only contention I could see would be the fact that the rib widens to 1/4" at the back of it. As I mentioned before, not a T.O. but if I were, I'd allow it unless someone had a serious objection at which point put it to a club vote.

    Pics are ALWAYS welcome :) haha
     
  6. jstod

    jstod Well-Known Member

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    oh and what ship is she?
     
  7. Kotori87

    Kotori87 Well-Known Member

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    Ahoy AP,

    a few considerations. First, Western's rib-spacing rules require at least 1" of penetrable area between ribs for every 1/8" of thickness, while most Big Gun clubs instead measure center-to-center (or leading-edge-to-leading-edge, or however you want to measure). That end result of that is for every 1" of penetrable area a Western ship has, other clubs only have 7/8" of penetrable area. You'll definitely want to check on that one, because it's important. If your ship meets WWCC standards there, you're good. If not, it'll be a lot harder to get approved.

    Second, Western's rules only discuss rib thickness in 1/8" increments. From what you've said, your rib spacing uses the same proportions, but falls in between the 1/8" ribs and the 1/4" ribs. We've... never actually considered that before. This second issue is quite minor, something I'm sure the WWCC tech officers will grant a waiver for. Certainly I would have no objections to battling my boats against it.
     
  8. AP

    AP Member

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    Thanks for your feedback, guys. I certainly appreciate it. I will pull her down and do some measuring. It has been years, but it want to verify the memories. The center-to-center versus twixt-the-ribs may be an issue. If it is, I'd be willing to remove a few ribs to meet density requirements, or shave them more.

    What I like about this method is the frame strength working with dense support for sheeting.

    She is the USS California, BB-44, post Pearl, resurrected-glory version -- the ship in my avatar.
     
  9. jstod

    jstod Well-Known Member

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    Very nice!
     
  10. AP

    AP Member

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    Umm.. I don't see a utility to add photos. How's that done?
    When I go into edit the post, some tools come up, but the image tool only works with a URL. Is there an upload facility?
     
  11. Tugboat

    Tugboat Facilitator RCWC Staff Admiral (Supporter)

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    There is a file manager in the menu at the top of the screen, but I like using photobucket or google+ to store the images.
     
  12. AP

    AP Member

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    Thanks again, Tugboat. Now I can move forward.

    These first two pics show the chamfered edges I BEGAN to run on these ribs. Basically, shaving away 1 of the layers of the plywood renders the proper thickness. I did this with a Dremel rotary drum years ago. Now I have a flat dremel tool that can get this completed better and more accurately. (And get rid of the last of the charring.)
    The charring is from the laser cutting. The pencil marks delineate the 1"-below-waterline point where my basswood armor would start. The spider in the second picture was an Axis spy. We decided it was best to let him have a very long look at things. Not our fault he died on the job....

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Overhead shot of the frame with decking removed.There are 6 ribs that connect the hull sides together. 1 is very hard to make out. It is 1of 2 that sit just forward of the rear gun pair. The forward two are covered with a plate that was installed to allow for some anchor weighing machinery.
    [​IMG]

    Stern keel, baseboard, rib and longitudinl brace construction. OLD SCHOOL. I know, I know, "But, but, there's no water channel? Where are the double keels?" I'm a caveman. It's who I am. This is what happens when you walk away for 15 years and then come out of the cave.
    After the basswood armor belt is installed, I will plank the underside with strips. They will be a tad thicker in places, and will allow for some shaping and sanding to get the contours correct. The outer gaps will be filled with thick CA, and hard filler, then skinned with tissue and dope. The inside will be resin sealed and flowed for quick water control toward the pumps.
    [​IMG]

    The midsection of the hull. I installed those two funny looking plates to hold this thing together for storage. I'm glad I did, considering how long it was up there gathering dust and spiders. The dust is apparent. Looking at the aft deck, you can see lines of clean wood... left there by the stringers of the fuselage of a model B-17 that's almost as long as this ship.
    I plan to remove the stiffeners, and go with something more substantial. The ribs are .4" deep, so bearings will still get through and fall away even with a hard mounted inner plate.
    The baseboards I use give a hull some stiffness when joined like they are. I've never been a fan of notching the caprail assembly, preferring to just glue ribs straight to the underside of the deck. I understand it's not as strong, but when cuting by hand the first ship, it was easier. This one was laser cut, but I thought the rib density would allow for a lack of notching. Hence, the cave man method.
    I did scew up the cap, though. Doesn't come out far enough to account for skinning, so I'll need to glue a strip lengthwise. I'll use basswood.
    The rib members that cross the baseboard are not glued. Only the notched junctions are glued. The cross pieces get cut out later, after the joints have been reinforced with resin. After that, the water slope gets installed, which locks the ribs into position forever.
    [​IMG]
    So, that's the answer to the edge chamfering question, and a little more to visualize where the California Project halted all those years ago. Life has been very interesting, and getting more so with a spine injury. I'd like to see about playing again, but not at the expense of God and family.
     
  13. Tugboat

    Tugboat Facilitator RCWC Staff Admiral (Supporter)

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    Butt joints?!?! o_Oo_O BUTT JOINTS!!!?!?!?!!! GRRRR.... :mad::crying::sick::crying::pinch::cry::eek::woot:


    In seriousness, though, the little sticky-uppy part of the hull above the main deck is legally allowed to be solid.
     
  14. AP

    AP Member

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    Yup. Butt joints. My old H-39 is in yer club. Jstod thinks someone named Hansen may have it. She has butts, too. I'm a fan of a good butt. :)

    The upper level will be "skinned" with 1/8" plywood connecting the rib tops and cap. Depending on secondaries, I may build structure into that area for support.
     
  15. Tugboat

    Tugboat Facilitator RCWC Staff Admiral (Supporter)

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    Oh, no, I don't do butt joints... just tongue and groove ;)
     
  16. jstod

    jstod Well-Known Member

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    cool can't wait for the finished ship to hit the water. wink wink. haha oh and after talking to our H-39 capt. it was discovered that the club actually has 3 of these beasts but only his is active.
     
  17. AP

    AP Member

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    Short-groover, huh? Ok. We call that a lap joint, where I come from. The entire assembly is an extended multi-purpose fitting. :laugh:

    Three 39s? I counted at least two in the pics. Well, at some point I hope to see the old gal.

    That last battle was GLORIOUS. Should have seen her out there all by her lonesome, two streams pumping, A-turret blown over the side, superstructure shot to hell and nobody wanted to come play with the big bad crippled 6-shooter.
     
  18. jstod

    jstod Well-Known Member

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    The one in the pictures I believe is the same one just at different stages of life. The H-39 is seemingly unsinkable.
     
  19. AP

    AP Member

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    Oh, it IS sinkable. The issue is that it is a superior platform. 10"+ beam, fast, can turn in 13' from a dead stop and can come to a full stop in 2 ship lengths. At least mine, could. The advantages of an accurate hull production. But, it is only a ship, after all, and has weaknesses. I almost killed a Yamato with mine, and THAT beast is truly huge. 1/4" freeboard when it got to port.... If a Yamato can be killed, an H can. Just gotta fill that pot with eough water, is all. Accurate gunnery + some way to keep it away from port = SUNK. Same with all ships. People bleed out in battle and die. Ships bleed IN in battle and are just as dead.
    I'd captain an H again, or even a Bismarck, but I'm getting patriotic (more so) in my old age. I love the WWII vets I've come to know. We have some absolutely great guys that manned our fleets. Fantastic guys. I find it personally hard to go against them, if you want to call it that. I respect them and do what I can to honor their old age and their passings. Makes me sad as hell to hear about yet another going on.... That's what drove my change to Allied. If I were to build a super ship, it might be a Montana, though I can't see how they could perform as well as an H-39 on the slalom course. IDK. Lots of things depend on lots of thing, right?
    [​IMG]


    California was an emotional choice. The ONLY BB built on the West Coast. Named after my birth state. The ship's band went on to help in crypto and broke the Jap code before Midway. Rose from the dead and led the fleet at Surrigao. Sported modern radar and fought like a renaissance lady in old trim, with new frills and one hell of an accurate left hook. Pearl Harbor Survivor's Club. And I like a lady that isn't afraid to admit she's too fat to fit through the door. (Panama Canal.) A grand old ship that tugged on my heart strings. Too bad she and her sister were broken up.
    I know this pic is of BB43, but these gals were twins, and I just love this shot of her. Tenny was a good ship too, and had an awesome crew. US born, bred and led. Good guys....
     
  20. AP

    AP Member

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    Anyway, if you WWCC guys are amenable, I'll try to bring her by for a closer look at one of the meets. I understand there are some venue issues to be resolved. Please private message me with info, if you could. I'd like to meet you all and see how the hobby has progressed.