I for one would be very hard pressed to imagine that a carrier with an 800+ foot long flight deck could only carry 50 planes. Still searching, though.
Good thing this is 1/96 battlestations and not WWCC Big Gun (we don't have a bible) and like I said before our rules follow closely, not exactly, to big gun rules. plus it doesn't matter even if Shinano only carried 1 super bomber plane, according to WWCC rules she still gets 16 1/4" cannon, so whats the point again? Anyway Tug I e-mailed Haruo-san about the plans and mentioned your name, will wait for a reply. When I get the plans we'll see how he has it outfitted, if its like wikpedia, Conways stands corrected. Two more things, 1: turret pics? 2: waiting on a reply from Mike's Sub Works to proceed to the next phase on the I-400 (I might add that its lookin' real good
As long as it is classified as a carrier (a battleship with scout planes doesn't count...we had a member try and pull a fast one a couple years back) it gets the 12 or 16 cannons. I am simply curious about the ship. It does seem odd that such a huge carrier was only capable of operating 47 planes (even if it could carry 70 or 120), and I would be very interested in finding out.
The IJN Combined Fleet website lists Shinano as both a carrier and a replenishment vessel. The IJN, for whatever reason, chose to only give her a normal operational complement, and dedicated the rest to storage. Visit this site And she did not have 4.7" guns, she instead carried 16 of the (then) newer 5"/40 DP guns. Carl
I don't entirely trust the combined fleet website, as some of their stuff is speculative, to say the least. Wikipedia has a good explanation of the repair/replenishment ship role, too, though. As for the 4.7" guns, both NavWeaps and Hazegray have the Shinano carrying 8 dual 5" mounts, with no 4.7" guns
The Imperial Japanse Navy, by AJ Watts and BG Gordon, considered a very comprehensive work on the IJN, indicates that Shinano was primarily a replenishment vessel, but was given 47 aircraft dedicated for self-defense. It does not list how many could be stored. Armament is listed as 16 5"/40, 145 25mm (36x3, 37x1), 336 5" rockets (12x28). I'll go post a question on the IJN ships message board and see if anyone there has a better clue as to how many aircraft she was designed to carry. Carl
I based all the ship lists for Battlestations off of the Conway's series, mainly to have a consistent baseline. I know they are lacking much useful information.
I found another online encyclopedia that agrees with wikpedia http://en.allexperts.com which info is correct????
All, I've posed the question on Shinano's aircraft complement on the IJN ships message board. You can follow the thread here: Visit this site So far there's been no new data discovered, but it hasn't been posted that long, and the carrier experts on the list haven't replied yet other than Art. Art thought the Hara Shobo book (Plans of Ships of the Imperial Japanese Navy) would have the answer, but it didn't. I'm still waiting for some of the carrier experts with Maru Graphic or Gakken books to weigh in. These books may have more info than we've found. Unfortunately, I don't have any IJN carrier specific references. [] Carl
Alas my collection of Maru and Gakken books doesn't have any carriers (yet). Unless you count the Hyuga(&Ise) after she got turned into a CVBB (22 planes).
Sorry, Mark, I missed this comment the first time around. I have a copy of Plans of Ships of the Imperial Japanese Navy printed by Hara Shobo back in 1975. This book has copies of original builder's prints for many ships and some drawings that appear to be redrawn based on original builder's prints. It has 5 drawings of Shinano: a starboard profile of internal compartments, and 4 drawings of deck plans. No hull lines or stations, nor even locations of weapons. Is this what you're looking for? Carl
BTW, the Myco plans are also available from Pacific Front Hobbies here in the US. It costs more than buying direct, but you get them much faster... Carl
$55.00 for plans, seams pricey. Tug is that how much it would cost if bought direct including the overseas shipping? Still no reply from him yet either.
here's a poser for the WWCC guys, if CA's get 12-16 1/4" guns depending on size, what about hybrid CA's like the Hyuga? would she get the guns in addition to her regular armament?
Does the Tone? I am not sure how I would fall on that issue. I think it would need something to cover dead astern.
Don't you mean CV's instead of CA's? Since before I joined the club, hybrid ships such as the converted Ise and Hyuga, as well as sail-powered ships are expressly illegal. It is an interesting question, so I will tell you how I would like to see it armed. Remember that the WWCC is the ugly duck big gun club that has armament limitations based on tonnage. Battleships over 30,000 tons get 6 main cannons (caliber determined by historical size), battleships over 20,000 get 8 main cannons (to encourage building dreadnoughts), and ships under 20,000 tons can be fully armed (if you can fit it). Battleships may trade main guns for smaller secondary guns at a 1:2 ratio. No ship may have more than 3 torpedo tubes per side. Carriers over 20,000 tons get 16 1/4" cannons, divided into four quadrants, while carriers under 20,000 get 12 1/4" cannons. Hyuga is over 30,000 tons and has 14" cannons, so it would normally 6 7/32" cannons. I would give it 2 1/4" guns off the stern and 4 7/32" guns, most likely placed in the bow. This way it doesn't exceed the armament give the original ship, but it is still an effective combination (I have seen ships with rotating forward guns and fixed stern guns fight better than ships with all rotating guns more often than not). This is also happens to be consistent with the number of aircraft she carried (22 planes => 2 cannons). Mogami and Tone are floatplane carriers, but could only carry 11 and 6 planes respectively. Tone and Mogami would each get 1 1/4" aircraft cannon (6 is enough, 5 is not). I think the Mogami is a powerful ship either as a light cruiser or as a converted floatplane carrier. I would arm a single rotating bow gun (to cover a large area), torpedoes (a powerful punch), and either 6 fixed 6" guns or the single aircraft cannon. The 6" guns could riddle the upper hull of any ship but would not score many hits below the belt, while the aircraft cannon would make less holes but is more likely to get belows, especially against a disabled ship. I'd have to look into other hybrids before thinking up a general rule.
There is nothing in the Battlestations rules against hybrid BBCVs, or sailing ships for that matter. We would need to figure out how the partial flight deck changes the allowed armament, but it's certainly legal. And in BaS we are allowed to arm pretty much all the mains and secondaries, plus torps.
