looking into the hobby

Discussion in 'Great Lakes Attack Squadron (GLAS)' started by wdodge0912, Mar 31, 2018.

  1. Kevin P.

    Kevin P. Well-Known Member

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    Here's my argument for why 6V is easier for a NEW CAPTAIN. I consider the average reliability of most new captain ships to be way too low, typically I see that driven by suggestions online. Those suggestions make for good camera men, but poor new member retention

    This is my proposed new captain ship control system:

    BC integrated gun/pump board
    Hobbywing 60A ESC, waterproof
    receiver
    johnson 600 motors (same motors for pump and drive)
    LiFe bricks or cylindrical cells
    solenoids
    waterproof rudder servo

    Steps for assembly:
    1) Pot BC board in epoxy, coat receiver in E6000
    2) Add connectors to battery, motors, solenoids
    3) plug stuff in
    4) bind receiver (can be tricky)

    You now have a pretty waterproof, operational ship control system. I would go as far as saying that it would be difficult to make that system not work. I put this in my Fiji a few months ago and was shocked at how simple it was. Can also be done at 12V if you can pick the right motors, but ship geometry makes battery selection trickier, not impossible, but why add a point of incompatibility for a new guy whose stuff is going to break and might not grasp spare parts needs.

    I haven't seen the >15V gun board solution, but it could exist.

    And Carlo, I'd say stay under 100V, 30V if possible. Life doesn't last long at 440V across the chest, I'm more comfortable plugging in the wet boat at <30V.

    One thing I have been planning to write up a 'new ship guide,' since I find that those with experience (and those without, haha) end up answering the same questions over and over again on this site. The plan would be to get input from others, so we don't end up with the 'voltage measuring contests' that spring up on every thread (I blame Steve).

    In regards to power consumption data, since we are measuring up here, I will say that my data is from about 14 events over the past two years, with two nationals. It is true that charger data introduces the error of residual discharge in the 12 hours between charge and battle, as well as countless other data inaccuracies, but those that believe in significant figures would say that those differences probably don't matter. I used to log the mAh for every charge, but those that believe in statistics will understand that I stopped logging the data once all of the numbers started falling into the same band. I've yet to establish my 95% confidence interval, so in that respect my data is deficient. Overall you could probably just say that I'm jealous of Chris' EE skills ;)

    Me personally, I typically run at least two different circuits in my boats, usually 4S drive and 2S pump, I couldn't find the right brushed 12V pump motor that lasted more than a few battles and got tired of burning through motors. When I go brushless pump I'll go up to 4S across the board, because I too believe in physics. If we can get more experienced captains figuring out simple, reliable solutions at 24V I think that would be great, but lets not direct the new guys to serve as a test platform.
     
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  2. wdodge0912

    wdodge0912 Well-Known Member

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    battery problem solved

    I think I'll need 2 of those for a battle though :p



    looking at what others say, and your own data

    • 10 amps at 6 volts is 60 watts, plus the 3 amps at 13.2v or roughly 40 watts, for a total of 100 watts of power. (this is rounding up your data that you have in a previous post)
    • someone else posseted they use 132w at 12v
    • and a third posted 120-160 watts "per DAY (2 battles/4 sorties)" on 4s life as they stated, on their Bismark.

    so a low of 100 watts, to 160 watts.

    If I estimate even 200 watts of power needed, would you say that is a fair amount of power to have extra left over that the end of the day?
     
  3. Kotori87

    Kotori87 Well-Known Member

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    watts is power, your ability to convert stored energy to work, aka accelerating the boat forward, or accelerating water overboard. What you need for battery capacity is energy storage, in watt-hours.
     
  4. wdodge0912

    wdodge0912 Well-Known Member

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    I'm just trying to find a baseline so I can scale it with an increase in voltage. as voltage increases, the ah need should go down, but I'm being told otherwise
     
  5. wdodge0912

    wdodge0912 Well-Known Member

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    how hard is putting in prop shafts? I was looking at the Konig because it would only be 1 powered prop, but with downarming it to 3 guns, I might go with something else, like the Von Der Tann. The VDT has the superstructure available (I just now saw this, missed it last time I looked at it when it was suggested before), and has the staggered wing turrets that I like. it would be a bit faster, but also a smaller ship, with 4 total props (2 powered, and 2 drag discs) and also keeps the 2 rudders.

    I would hope to be able to get help putting the shafts in if I needed it.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2018
  6. WillCover

    WillCover -->> C T D <<-- Captain (Supporter)

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    just add it to the list of question to ask at the battle, you will also have our numbers and we will let you on our double secret private posts.this is after we meet you ,the blood test ,psych eval,aptitude test, IRS audit, and a contract with a cross-roads demand.
     
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  7. wdodge0912

    wdodge0912 Well-Known Member

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    can the psych eval and aptitude test be from previous ones I've taken? i needed them to get the job i have now, maybe they can finally be useful (as everyone hired after me did not need them)
     
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  8. WillCover

    WillCover -->> C T D <<-- Captain (Supporter)

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    ...Sooo your saying the tests where unnecessary or lied!:laugh:
     
  9. jadfer

    jadfer Well-Known Member

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    I wonder what voltage the guys in MI use? I like the idea of 12 v but with lithium at 30 bucks a cell it doubles your sortie cost.

    I have been running 48v for a while. I use recovered motors from wrecked Tesla’s since they are so plentiful. Plenty of torque... a little on the heavy side though.
     
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  10. WillCover

    WillCover -->> C T D <<-- Captain (Supporter)

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    6v, I'm using 6v drive and pump 12v for solenoids
     
  11. Kevin P.

    Kevin P. Well-Known Member

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    When other guys said watts, they meant watt-hours (Wh)

    The max energy consumption I saw per sortie was about 92 Wh. If you divide that by 0.75 to add a 25% buffer, you get about 120 Wh, per sortie. If you are planning to not change batteries for a whole battle (2 sorties), then 200 Wh per battle should be adequate, since first sortie energy consumption is typically lower then second sortie (pumping less). You can use those numbers to figure out the amp-hours (Ah) needed by dividing Wh by selected voltage (like you mentioned). If you use LiPo's or LiFe's then charging via your car between sorties/battles should work, SLA's would not be able to be charged in time
     
  12. Kevin P.

    Kevin P. Well-Known Member

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  13. kgaigalas

    kgaigalas Well-Known Member

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    Anyone trying to join our club has ALREADY FAIL any psych. test I know .
    YOU ARE IN ! :woot::woot::woot::woot::woot::woot:
    Kas
     
  14. wdodge0912

    wdodge0912 Well-Known Member

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    Well, when you need to fill 3 job openings out of the crew of 5 people, you kind of have to skip those things.

    just don't think about why you just had 3/5th of your employees leave the plant. that might involve having to do something...
     
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  15. SteveT44

    SteveT44 Well-Known Member

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    Shafts are easy enough.

    First determine where you want the props and build a jig to hold the prop shaft(s) at that point.

    upload_2018-5-4_12-54-9.png


    I don't have exact pics for the next couple of steps so use your imagination.

    Put the hull right side up along a table edge. With the prop shaft and stuffing tube in the jig, hold the tube along the side of the hull at the angle it will be installed at. Take into account if the shaft needs to meet up with a motor or gearbox. While looking at this from the side, mark on the hull where the top of the stuffing tube and the bottom of the tube meet the hull.

    upload_2018-5-4_13-8-36.png


    Turn the hull upside down on the bench and looking from straight above, do kind of the same thing. Place the shaft at the angle as it will be installed in the hull. Trace along the shaft onto the hull.

    upload_2018-5-4_13-11-32.png

    You will end up with something that looks like this.

    upload_2018-5-4_13-0-14.png


    Start drilling 1/4" holes along the center line between the fore and aft marks. Open the slot up with a file or whatever. A 1/4" round files works nice to feather the front and back of the slot.

    upload_2018-5-4_13-3-53.png


    Next step is to bond the tube to the hull. Epoxy putty works great for this. I personally like to have the shaft mounted to the motor (or gearbox) and then hard mount the motor and/or gearbox and then bond in the stuffing tube last (no dog-bone installation). See my Atlanta thread for details on that.

    ...
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2018
  16. rcaircraftnut

    rcaircraftnut Well-Known Member

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    There are other ways when doing a built up wood hull but lets not confuse you yet lol.
     
  17. Panzer

    Panzer Iron Dog Shipwerks and CiderHaus Admiral (Supporter)

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    And don't forget that they have to like Goats!!!!
    Keep in mind, that I hope you are talking just for ideas right now as opposed to making actual plans. Take a look at what everyone has at the pond when you get there and bring paper/pen/tape recorder/camera/phone etc. I think someone in GLAS has a Konig Hull, we will try to be sure its there, so you can see it. I think there is a Nassau hull floating around as well and will see if that can also be there, Mark, Will and Kas are amazing builders and battlers, they all have multiple battle ready boats you can see and learn from.

    Now my 2 cents on Batts:
    I use 2 of these per sortie: http://www.batteryspace.com/lifepo4...h-10c-rate-64-wh-6-0---un38-3-passed-dgr.aspx
    I run everything off those 2 batts for entire sortie, Stinger pump, 2-550 cans for drive, receiver, solenoids, all electrical.... if I am pumping heavy and I am not on 5, I don't worry too much. How ever my VDT is wired so I can do 6 or 12 volts, all I do is add 2 more batts in hull(they fit, I checked) this is the same wth my Badenough and Tirpitz is already 12 volt. Derf will always be 6 volt..:woot::woot::woot::woot:

    Fyi...
    Hi my name is craig, and I'm an addict!
    The first step to a happy life is realizing its not a problem its just Toy Boats!:eek::eek::laugh:
    Looking forward to seeing you on the water in 3 weeks.
    Craig:D
     
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  18. wdodge0912

    wdodge0912 Well-Known Member

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    I'm trying to see what I can afford for batteries, while keeping weight and cost down, and getting the best I can.

    but in general yes, just planning.

    I think the ship is going to come down to cost of batteries, due to the weight limits of the VDT vs the Konig.
     
  19. wdodge0912

    wdodge0912 Well-Known Member

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    Out of the Konig and VDT, which would be better for budget building?

    I mean i found have the 4th cannon with SLA (of course being able to upgrade later), or the VDT with the better batteries, and slightly higher speed, but one less gun.

    because looking at the weights of SLA, I'm probably won't be able to run them in the VDT. unless everything else is super light
     
  20. Panzer

    Panzer Iron Dog Shipwerks and CiderHaus Admiral (Supporter)

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    Budget, honestly between the 2 is not that big a difference, especially if you can get stuff locally and not pay shipping cost. are you capable of cutting your own decks??? and we can figure costs for you at the pond as well but you really need to see this stuff before you make any decisions unless you gotta have a VDT go with whatever ship drives you.. if its Konig than build it and forget about anything else till its on the water,,,we may have Battery options for you on the cheap side...but as I said before when you get pondside it mite all change. You mite Decide you gotta have Kas's PT boat and nothing else will do!!!
     
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