Hope I got that rite lol. Anyway, I really like the look or the early version better with all the casement and small guns side mounted below the main weatherdeck. Also the four stacks are a major cause of my attraction to her. But I am wondering if the WW2 DKM version is any better in your opinion, and why? Thx.
Depends on what you like. If you like beautiful armored cruisers, or nazi garbage scows. Or maybe you like having more guns and speed rather than shorter, lighter and hard area galore. Go Imperial, go Armored Cruiser! Unless you want more guns or to go faster really. They're both nice ships and can do well in the right hands when well built.
Ok, so what are the strengths and weaknesses of each then? I am not sure exactly where I will fit in yet, trying to get my homework done before I start a build. I will be getting together with the Atlanta boys soon, but I'm hoping that I can start a hull before then and get a jump on having something ready for this summer.
Let me put this another way, completely ignore what I may or may not want to do in a battle and let's just concentrate on an Apple's to Apple's comparison of the two ships in question. Is one going to be better than the other one? Are they going to be intended for different roles? Do they both get side mounts? Is one better armored? These are the type of things that will help me decide if I am interested in one over the other. I still need to decide how I am going to captain a ship, I do think that I will end up with one of Vvholics starter Fletcher class DD's and then something that can slug it out when needed but still fast enough or maneuverable enough to get away when needed or of I am actually able to tell when that is? Lol.
WW1 Scharnhorst is a cruiser. Under the rules, she's not allowed guns except in the bow/stern quadrants (no sidemounts because on a narrow beam ships=hazard). 26sec/100' speed. 2 guns & 1 pump. OTOH, huge amounts of casements / armor belts / elaborate sh*t in hull means it's darn near bb-proof. Like all WW1 German ships, she also sits low in the water, making her an even harder target. A sniper that can dive into the midst of the battle to get the shot without getting ripped apart. WW2 Scharnhorst is a battleship. 24sec/100' (faster than WW1), sidemounts allowed. Typically 4 guns and a pump (5.5 units = 1 pump, 3x50-round guns and 1x75-round gun) or (more risky) 5 guns and a 1/2 unit pump. Large hull, but can be fairly manueverable with correctly set up prop / rudders. Can do the sniper game with stern guns, can trade sidemounts with other battleships.
build thread for WW2 scharny: https://rcwarshipcombat.com/threads/german-battleship-gneisenau-ircwcc-rules.441653/page-2 build thread for WW1 scharny: https://rcwarshipcombat.com/threads/sms-scharnhorst-ircwcc.444229/
Personally I love Lil Scharnie. Properly done, she turns well, enjoys a generous amount of legally-solid area, and I've driven mine for 4 years (last year split between Scharnie and Evstafi). I bought another Scharnhorst hull to build a new one and change a few things that I can't easily change on my first one. You could say that I like it. A few thoughts: 1) Get the Grey Wolf Squadron smokestacks from BC, they' foam which means that they are light, and flex when shot and so don't take a lot of damage. 2) Run a 1.5" prop. With the single drive prop, you WILL need the thrust to slow down quickly unless you like collecting ram penalties. Ask me how I know 3) Get some 1/4" and 1/8" wide tape and put it on your hull where you think hard area should go. Then take a pic and post it on here so that we can tell you if you missed some legit hard area, or if you claimed too much. Both are bad, but for different reasons On my first Scharnie, I missed some legit hard area and had to add it back in with plywood stringers. These would periodically get shot out. I could've gone back and done a more permanent job but it's not like Scharnie sank a lot anyhow. 4) Guns. I like single bow, single stern because I've always got something to do. Some people prefer dual sterns, and there is a lot to be said for that, since duals blow a bigger hole than two single shots. Some have asked me why I don't do dual bow guns on Scharnie (I have other ships with dual bow guns). See my comment about ram penalties. This ship has a nose like a druish princess and it's VERY easy to be using your bow guns and ram someone. Even with my single bow gun it's tempting. Fortunately, my Druish princess got a nose job and a foam ram bow replacement, which quickly came off in battle. Either way, with the stock hull, rams are very easy to do (And that's BAD). If you go with Big Scharnie, play her like a supersized cruiser. You get enough units to have triple sterns and a bow sidemount, but the sidemount is there only to get you in trouble.
I suppose I could always just bring the hull over during a build session and have you guys help me with marking out the Windows and stringers. Only about a 6 hr trip each way, haha.
DKM Scharnhorst is a 5.5 unit battleship and is allowed sidemounts...... However the turret locations are not optimal for sidemount action. Bow sidmounts on a long High freeboard ship such as Scharnhost is a BAD idea. Most DKM Scharnhosrt are set up with triple aft and one bow sidemount. Run is like a large cruiser with triple aft guns. I want sidemounts. Sidmounts sink ships. Triple afts put large holes ABOVE waterline. SMS Scharnhost. No experience. None in the area. From what I have seen and read on the internet. If I had to go against one in a battle...... I would avoid it do to all the hard area, but would not be too terribly afraid of it. No side mounts limits the amount of damage it could do to me.
For most rookies a cruiser is recommended. Relatively easy to build. Relatively cheap/cheaper to build. Less systems to maintain. For someone with extensive R/C skill. and model building skills. you might get board with a cruiser. MY recommendation would be to look at: First: SMS Von der Tann. 4 unit battle cruiser. speed 26. 46.92" long with dual rudders. typical set up is 1 aft cannon. 1 aft sidmount. 1 bow sidemount. Sits low in water and has casements (less area to take damage). Second: SMS Moltke 4 unit battle cruiser. speed 26. 50.9" 2 inline rudders. typical set up is 1 aft cannon. 2 aft sidmounts. Aft sidmounts (haymakers) sink ships. Third: (If you simply have to go allied). HMS Invincible. 4 unit battle cruiser. speed 26. 47.25" dual rudders. typical set up is 1 aft cannon. 1 aft sidmount. 1 bow sidemount. Of the three recommended battle cruisers Invincible has the most free board and lacks casement guns. This leaves you vulnerable to aft cannons. DKM Scharnhorst will love you
I was thinking about setting up now sidemount to hit at a further range than point blank. I don't like the idea of doing just stern guns because I can't fathom a way to get into position without either backing in or showing my side's while turning into firing position. I think I may be a bit unconventional in my thinking and tactics. This may all change the first time I try it, but I think trying something different can often confuse the enemy. Especially if you do things they don't expect. If I can get the bow guns to hit at a longer range, say 2-4 feet and still be effective as well as set up a stern haymaker, it could be a very fun ship to fight. It just seems to me that if we are all set up the same, with the same basic design ideas, that can get boring quickly. I do value the info and advice, just thinking out loud.
You might be surprised by Lil Scharnie then, Max. Both my bow and stern guns are set to do belows. And she's pretty hard to sink. Even if no one sank in a duel, another ship would probably lose on points just because its hard to put holes in her.
That Von Der Tann looks like a good choice as well. Ok now it's a toss up between it and the lil Scharnhorst.
My strategy with Lil Scharnie would be to play with someone else. If there is so much hard area that is is hard to damage, why waste time and bb's. If you have the bow set up for belows.... you must be VERY good to not be doing a LOT of ram damage with that nasty looking bow.
Max, in my first battle with Lil Scharnie, I got 3 ram penalties. That's 3 more than in my entire battling career in other boats I got better Also gave her a nose job and put on a foam ram bow. It's been shot off enough that I just leave it off most times.
To be legal, it should more or less approximate the shape of the real ship's ram bow. Since it was blue camping foam, it was a rough approximation. Basically, I cut the nose of the ship off, sealed the hole with epoxy and fiberglass, and fitted the foam to it. Above the water, the ship looks normal.
